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        General >> Problems >> ABS/TCS rolling test fail
        
(Message started by: mk1boy on Dec 29^th, 2011, 9:59am)

Title: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by mk1boy on Dec 29^th, 2011, 9:59am

Hi, My ABS/TCS lights go out when I start the car but come on when I start driving. I suspected the rear wheel sensors so removed and cleaned them and everything was fine for a day or so, then the lights started coming on again. I removed the sensors again and cleaned them (although they looked ok) but it made no difference this time. I checked the sensor connectors under the rear seat and they were ok. A friend suggested that the sensing ring needed cleaning and that I should poke a jet washer through the sensor hole and give them a blast - I really don't think thats a good idea but he tells me he did it on his some years ago. I have searched the threads on the forum but can't really fiind the answer - any ideas, please?
thanks

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by PJDavis on Dec 29^th, 2011, 10:56am

Don't do the 'Jet-washer' thing! If you suspect the sensor ring then simply remove the sensor and take plenty of time scraping a suitably sized screw-driver that has a strong tip over each individual spline. It takes time but could answer your problem. When I changed my rear bearings, you can push the axle-shaft in enough to get a thin wire-brush onto the ring and give it a good clean. If it's a greasy mess that is on the ring, consider the seal on the bearing gone and this may be the start of the failing of the bearing. My problem with the ABS was the front connection on the off-side against the inner wing by the front-strut. Even though the connection was looking ok, the inside was corroded quite badly and the wires had broken away. I made-up a new connector and soldered the wires in. There is somewhere on this site a diagram of the connecting plug to the ABS unit, this diagram shows you what pins in the connector to check for resistance, and what those pins represent in terms of the ABS sensors. It's a very easy well explained task, and will instantly tell you which sensor is the problem. Unfortunately you'll need to wait for one of the guys that knows where this info is, to pop up a link for you.

Peter

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Snoopy on Dec 29^th, 2011, 1:21pm

I always suggest cleaning the two connectors under the front wings and sealing them with silicone grease after cleaning. My abs used to fail on the odd occasion but it was cleared after cleaning both these plugs. The nearside one always looked the worse and it was something I did on a 6 monthly basis.

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Simmo on Dec 29^th, 2011, 1:31pm

The pin out diagrams are easily located as there is a link on all Tompions' posts. ;) Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1324149969;start=0#0).

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by mk1boy on Dec 29^th, 2011, 3:48pm

thanks guys - I have just cleaned the sensor rings with a screwdriver as suggested - no change :'(. They weren't that dirty but I gave it a try anyway.
Next job will be the front wheel sensor connectors. I had thought that as I had temporarily solved the problem by cleaning the rear sensors that it must be them. I didnt realise the TCS light would come on if the fronts were dodgy. I will give it a try at the weekend - too dark/cold/rainy now.
I couldn't locate the pin out diagram via the link - is it available elsewhere?
cheers

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by PJDavis on Dec 29^th, 2011, 4:16pm

At the bottom of Tomp's posts aye, all of them! You'll see below the line ABS Mk4 or Mk20, click on the relevant model for your car. You'll get the continuity diagram for each wheel sensor. If you're getting a reading of say, 1040 to about 1050 out of each sensor, expect the dreaded 1095 code which means a fix of the solder inside the box. This is also covered elsewhere on the forum.

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by PJDavis on Dec 29^th, 2011, 4:19pm

To explain further, look at my last post here, and see where below the line it says 'Living in the Bog' go to any of Tompian's posts and see the ABS Mk4 and Mk20 in blue, click on the relevant one for your car. If you're not sure of the relevant one you'll have to look on the pictures on the forum help bit.

Peter

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by mk1boy on Dec 29^th, 2011, 4:28pm

Thanks = got it now!!!
I will give it a try and see how I get on
thanks again

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Simmo on Dec 29^th, 2011, 5:50pm

on 12/29/11 at 16:16:11, PJDavis wrote:

This is also covered elsewhere on the forum.

The details are in 'How to do things' Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1268910490).

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Simmo on Dec 29^th, 2011, 5:55pm

If these two pins are not making a good contact the fault code indicates that the motor is not working. This is because it is not getting power. The first test is to apply 12v to the motor itself...this is easily done by unplugging the two pin connector from the controller. If the motor runs when power is applied then the motor clearly is not faulty and the 'pins' are thus suspect. :)

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Dave2302 on Dec 30^th, 2011, 12:12pm

As with most things Scorpio, reading the codes and looking at live data will point you in the right direction..................

i.e. If it comes up with NSF speed sensor, then you should be looking at that area, (clean connections and ring), if it comes up Motor Fault test motor as above, then do pins solder repair if motor is OK ;)

Will save you a lot of guesswork and time in the long run ;)

HTH Dave

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by mk1boy on Dec 30^th, 2011, 5:41pm

thanks guys - am hoping for a drier day tomorrow so I can get fiddling

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by mk1boy on Dec 31^st, 2011, 11:31am

Have tested the connector and got the following resistance
FL 1065
FR 1043
RL 1046
RR 1051

I then tested the connector to the motor and got 0v so I put 12v to it and it ran. I presume this means the controller is faulty.

Strangely, I now have the ABS/TCS lights staying on whereas before they went out until the car started moving.

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Tompion on Dec 31^st, 2011, 12:11pm

The only real way of knowing what the problem is is to read the codes. The resistance test of the sensors is a basic test & doesn’t necessarily mean they are working. I assume you’ve checked the ABS fuses & that power is getting through to all 3 power pins of the ABS multiplug.
The heavier wires in the plug are from fuses 46 & 47 & are permanently live so care needs to be taken. When I test the motor I usually patch it in turn to the 2 pairs of heavy wire pins to test all at the same time.

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Tompion on Dec 31^st, 2011, 12:47pm

With regard the light now staying on, it’s often the case that the more testing you do the worse the problem gets. I think if it is the controller this can be down to unplugging the motor – it’s the last straw on the failing solder of the pins.

One of the motor pins is earthed so you can test for that, try pushing the pin around with the probe to see if you can get it to break contact. You should also be able to get some sort of reading between the other motor pins & one of the pins to the multiplug. The trouble with testing this way is it usually is OK but breaks down under load.

This picture is not of your type of controller but gives an idea of what I mean with the earth pin:

http://i.imgur.com/nYg5X8F.jpg

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Tompion on Dec 31^st, 2011, 1:35pm

I’ve updated the links at the foot of my posts to include all wires, however it is the non TCS version.

If anyone notices an error please let me know.

http://i.imgur.com/tJB3OgE.jpg

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by mk1boy on Dec 31^st, 2011, 3:54pm

All the fuses look ok. I have checked the multiplug and find 12v at pins 1, 2 and 15. Given that that seems ok, and the motor runs when 12v is applied, I guess it must be the controller. I'm not sure if it is possible to repair it; I've seen the repair for the type 20 but not sure if its the same for the MkIV. Given the cost of new/recon ones, I think the outcome will be to wait until it fails its MOT in June then scrap the car. A shame but the car is just not worth the expense.

many thanks for your help anyway.

ps I don't have a fault code reader - are they easy to find?

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Simmo on Dec 31^st, 2011, 4:00pm

I stand to be corrected BUT I don't think the cheap code readers will read ABS codes.

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by PJDavis on Dec 31^st, 2011, 4:06pm

It would be a terrible shame to scrap the car for just a controller fault. You would surely be able to get one second-hand from somewhere. Just make sure that it is working before you pay the money!

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Tompion on Dec 31^st, 2011, 5:56pm

They come up on Ebay, I’ve seen them go quite cheaply although of course they could be faulty & like I mentioned earlier one that’s working may fail just through being unplugged.

I've repaired a TCS one so yes they can be repaired, assuming the pins are the problem.

The area to be soldered is directly opposite the motor plug on the other side of the controller (this is a MKIV controller but may not be TCS):

http://i.imgur.com/3ZE0Sqj.jpg

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by mk1boy on Dec 31^st, 2011, 6:02pm

Thanks guys. I can only asume that it is the controller that needs replacing and I don't know how I would test a replacement without it being on the car so taking one from a scrapyard is going to be a gamble (if I could find one that is).

A couple of silly questions - are the readings I have for the sensors ok - ie are they are as expected if the sensors are serviceable and secondly, I presume the motor only works when required - its not running all the time? If thats the case, i shouldn't be too surprised that it only works when 12v is applied as there wouldn't be power to it when the car is stationary?
thanks

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Tompion on Dec 31^st, 2011, 7:14pm

The sensor readings are fine - but as mentioned doesn't mean they are functioning correctly.

The reason for testing the motor is that the code that usually indicates a failure of the controller is “C1095 Hydraulic Pump Motor Circuit Failure”
This is because the motor is tested as part of the startup/rolling road test. The motor is seen as at fault because of the pin fault preventing it being tested.

The advice to test the motor is just to rule it out if there is a C1095 code (not that I’ve seen any posts of a faulty motor).

Some of the details are in the link that Mike posted:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1268910490

There is also some advice on the main site:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/abssystem.htm

Where do you live? There may be someone nearby with a reader who could check for codes.

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by mk1boy on Jan 2^nd, 2012, 12:07pm

Thanks for the explanation. On the basis that it isn't working, I will probably have a go at reparing the controller - I can't see that I can make it any worse (well...)

I'll let you know how it goes once we get a weekend without any rain...

cheers

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by mk1boy on Jan 2^nd, 2012, 8:05pm

More confusion...I was driving the car today and after around 10 minutes I noticed that the ABS and TCS lights weren't on. I went over to a nearby area of private land that is suitably rough surfaced and tested it out - the ABS and TCS worked perfectly!
Feeling confused but happy, I set off again only for both lights to come back on after a minute or so. When i next started the car, the start up test was fine but the lights came back on once i drove away. back to square one... ???

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Tekno on Jan 2^nd, 2012, 10:41pm

Have you cleaned front ABS sensor wire connectors? (next to Front shocks) They always collect moisture and dirt.

But I believe its the abs pump box solderings... i had 100% same symptoms..

just drill hole in box and resolder them like instructions say. easy job if done carefully

Title: Re: ABS/TCS rolling test fail
Post by Tompion on Jan 2^nd, 2012, 11:03pm

That’s typical of ABS one minute it works, next it doesn’t. Prior to getting a code reader I wasted hours messing about with mine trying to get it sorted for the impending MOT.

I’ve just checked a MK IV controller. Although this picture is a different controller it’s the same arrowed motor pin that should link to earth (you’ll notice the plastic of the motor socket is curved next to the earth pin).
The one I’ve just tested if I gently push on the pin in all directions I can find one direction where the meter consistently looses contact. (Yes that’s your spare Mike :( (Simmo) it’s faulty.)

http://i.imgur.com/L9kdsFX.jpg