Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> Seized rear caliper
        
(Message started by: Jeff on Jan 14^th, 2012, 4:36pm)

Title: Seized rear caliper
Post by Jeff on Jan 14^th, 2012, 4:36pm

Just had an MOT failure due to a seized rear caliper so have posted for any 2nd hand ones that are working, or is their any other advice? 24V saloon.

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by a900one on Jan 14^th, 2012, 5:40pm

Its normaly the hand brake mech that seizes, you can free it up. I take out the bolt that holds on the return spring, remove the spring and work the arm back and forth as well as up and down with lots of wd40.
You will have to wind the piston back in, dont let it pop out, which you can do with some pin nose pliers, or aa special tool if you have one.

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by wes on Jan 14^th, 2012, 7:57pm

have the same thing with most of the scorpios i pick up rear brakes siezed but as said above its the handbrake

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Simmo on Jan 15^th, 2012, 8:12am

on 01/14/12 at 17:40:31, a900one wrote:

In essence this is the first course of action. You may be lucky and it may help to look in 'How to do things' where there is a link all about the rear caliper. A common cause of the failure, if you have an automatic, is leaving it in park rather than using the handbrake. ie: lack of use. :)

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Tenfut on Jan 15^th, 2012, 11:39am

on 01/14/12 at 17:40:31, a900one wrote:

Can the spring be removed with the caliper in situ?

How easy to put the spring back?

Tenfut

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Jeff on Jan 15^th, 2012, 12:23pm

Yes guilty as charged re the auto transmission, never use the handbrake. Will get yanking with some WD...

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Mike H on Jan 15^th, 2012, 12:45pm

No naughty you must! Slapped legs ;D

Pulling the handbrake adjusts the pistons up as the pads wear.

Also as you've found, is essential to ensure operating lever remains free to turn.

If it helps I usually try to alternate in what state I leave it, e.g. if at home leave handbrake off, if parked elsewhere put it on. Or at least operate it once per trip e.g. whenever get into the car to drive it. That way makes sure pistons are adjusted up and that the levers are not permanently left in one position to seize up. In theory....

I used to not use it as well and was told off by my mechanic ... ;D

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Jeff on Jan 15^th, 2012, 2:57pm

I shall go to the naughty step now...or at least later when I've finished working the crank first to the left...then back...to...the...right then back to the left...then back...to...the...right...it's a slow old job but seems to be improving. Just come in to have a look at the diagram see if I can pull the pivot pin out and give it a proper seeing to in the vice. Nice cold wind out there too, but spose that's better than rain.
Note to self - start using handbrake. Won't mention this to HID as she always puts hers on (another auto) and I bemoan the practice. So she was right all along.
As usual :(

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Simmo on Jan 15^th, 2012, 3:20pm

To answer two questions:
(1) Tenfut.Yes you can take the spring off BUT it is very strong and you'll need to use a length of strong wire and a piece of wood as a lever in order to remove/replace it. TAKE CARE.

(2) Jeff. The best thing is to undo the bolt holding the fulcrum arm down a few turns. Then you can lever up the arm a little and knock it back down I have found this probably the most effective action in addition to the back and forth movement. You cannot take the unit out, even if you fully undo the bolt, as the shaft has a recess at the base into which a small 'peg' fits. This in turn passes through the caliper body and actuates the threaded rod to the piston. If you look at the pictures in How to do things you'll see what I mean. The effect is that although you can raise the shaft slightly,as I described, the peg stops it from being removed. The only way to release it is to dismantle the caliper as has been done in the two articles. My experience is that either the 'back and forth' and 'Up and down' system works or it's a replacement caliper. I found the best tool to achieve the back and forth bit is a pair of Stilson or a pair of pump pliers in order to get decent,effective leverage. Let us know how you get on. Good luck, Mike. ;)

Links are Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1267895657) and Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1268993371). The photos clearly show the shaft and the peg.

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Mike H on Jan 15^th, 2012, 4:15pm

on 01/15/12 at 14:57:52, Jeff wrote:

I shall go to the naughty step now...or at least later when I've finished

Note to self - start using handbrake. Won't mention this to HID as she always puts hers on (another auto) and I bemoan the practice. So she was right all along.

As usual :(

LOL ;D

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Jeff on Jan 15^th, 2012, 5:40pm

Chaps. Thanks for the advice and comments.
Yes I looked up the diagram and spotted the peg, and although it's not clear from that exploded view how it works, I figured it would be captive. However as you suggest I did manage to effect some up and down action as well as left and right and think I have freed it up enough for it to work. Crude old arrangement, isn't it, with that horrible old spring etc. I was able to unhook the spring with some adjustable pliers which I call 'graunchers' - long handles so enough leverage to carefully manoeuvre the tail in and out of its retaining hole in the caliper, so that was straightforward. Reckon that would bite if it slipped, so rule number 9 - concentrate! Tongue out if necessary.
Can't be sure if the lever is actually working, but I'm optimistic. Have to swap some tyres over from my other Scorp in order to clear that part of the MOT failure sheet then we should be getting the free retest.
It was cold out there but Johnny Walker kept me happy and it wasn't too bad. No, the radio presenter, not the Scotch.
The question is, will I be bothered to give the other side a bit of attention just as a preventative measure. Well, yes, I think so.
I feel I've let the side down, I've let the authorities point the finger and most of all I've let myself down. I'm disgusted with myself. No, honestly.
The only thing will be a nice beer to console myself. Good bye.
Handbrake. Pah.

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Simmo on Jan 15^th, 2012, 6:22pm

Hope you've been successful Jeff. Best way to check is get a piece of timber to use as a lever....about 2 foot long...that tells you I'm an OAP ;D, place it across the wheel studs with the h/brake applied and apply pressure, you'll soon see if the h'brake is holding before you put it all back together. I'd 'test' the other side the same way and if necessary treat it as you have done this one.

The system works,apparently, because when you apply the handbrake the 'peg' pushes on the large screw thread and this in turn moves the piston. As the piston is threaded it thus takes up any slack from pad wear but retains a level of clearance to allow the pads to release from the disc. This is why the rear pistons have to wound back rather than just being pushed back like the fronts. :)

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Jeff on Jan 15^th, 2012, 8:21pm

There's always more in it than meets the eye, isn't there. I drove it round the block and to my great delight found the lever felt much better, and the travel in the pedal tightened up nicely too. So I think I have fixed the problem. If I get the chance I'll dig out some old wood, cos that'll be in feet and inches, and see if there's any resistance.
(As a matter of fact I start a new job tomorrow (I'm a contract draughtsman) and that's going to be for an American outfit, so will be in feet and inches. I must brush up on me fractions!)
Anyway I'm still a bit sheepish about the fact that it had got bad enough to be not working. I like to think I keep up with maintenance but have been found slacking. Hopefully others will read these jottings and maybe check theirs out. It's good to talk!
Looking forward to parking on a steep hill, if I can find one.

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Simmo on Jan 15^th, 2012, 9:14pm

on 01/15/12 at 20:21:43, Jeff wrote:

. If I get the chance I'll dig out some old wood, cos that'll be in feet and inches

Let's hope the car is ok and good luck with the job. :)

(Cheeking OAPs who are Moderators could cause you problems!!!!. :D ;D ).

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Jeff on Jan 15^th, 2012, 9:44pm

Thanks Simmo, will report back in due course. The ABS light came on during the test drive, so have that to sort now too. It's intermittent though (on and off in the past) so fingers crossed. Aah dear, not easy is it.

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Mike H on Jan 16^th, 2012, 3:26pm

I'm not an "expert" here but if you're lucky might be just dirty sensor rings on the hubs, which have splines on for the pick-up sensors, have been known for the gaps to fill up with crud. The warning light comes on because the system is having a problem determining if all the wheels are rotating at the same speed.

on 01/15/12 at 20:21:43, Jeff wrote:

I drove it round the block and to my great delight found the lever felt much better, and the travel in the pedal tightened up nicely too. So I think I have fixed the problem.

That sounds right yes!

What did you use to lubricate the pivot with?

BTW several Ford models have that adjuster and it's the bane of everyones lives. ;D

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Jeff on Jan 16^th, 2012, 6:36pm

I shall get back under there and see if I can remedy the ABS light. Pretty sure it's not a real problem, just a dodgy connection, as it is an intermittent thing. Sod's law it comes on in time for MOT.
I just applied some WD40 (from a manual pump squirter that I bought recently, with a gallon of the fluid) and a bit of good old-fashioned elbow grease, working the lever back and forth with some help from teenage son. Reluctant, of course. I could tell straight away it was responding, maybe I was just in time.
Hardly surprising, given the environment it's in.

Title: Update on Seized rear caliper
Post by Jeff on Jan 25^th, 2012, 8:53pm

Well in spite of my WD-40'ing and large portions of elbow grease the handbrake is not working, no MOT, and so I will have to strip the caliper down, or maybe swap it out for one off my now-deceased estate. I'm assuming they are the same, can anyone confirm. I guess I'll see if they're different when I get there. Are re-conditioned ones available anywhere?

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by a900one on Jan 25^th, 2012, 9:21pm

Have you adjusted the handbrake cable correctly, the cams must go back to the stops on the caliper.

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Jeff on Jan 25^th, 2012, 9:34pm

er...no. Think I'd better read up on the subject properly, I haven't adjusted anything, just freed up the crank and worked the handbrake a few times. Think I'm trying to find a shortcut that doesn't exist.

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Simmo on Jan 26^th, 2012, 8:24am

Jeff, if you can see the fulcrum moving back and forth then it would appear to be an internal fault. When you pull on the handbrake do you feel resistance straight away?. If so the cable would seem to be tensioned correctly provided the fulcrum is moving.
There is an article on adjusting the handbrake cable but at the moment the 'Search' facility on the front page is not working. I'll try and get that resolved in the meantime keep trying. IIRC the 24v has vented discs and so does the estate therefore the calipers should be ok.

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Snoopy on Jan 27^th, 2012, 7:33am

Search facility fixed and this is what Simmo was referring to

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/adjhandbrake.htm

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Jeff on Jan 27^th, 2012, 10:17pm

The answer in my case I think is that the lever on the caliper, although moving when the handbrake is pulled, is either not moving enough or not moving the mechanism inside the caliper. There is a lot of sogginess on the handbrake lever and it comes up too far, so reading the article on here (I found it without the search help, but thanks for the suggestions anyway) would suggest it's not working.
As stated, the cable is not adjustable so I have yet to fix the problem. But all this new-found handbrake action has remedied the overly long piston travel (giving soggy pedal) and tuned up the other side at least, resulting in what now feels like new brakes. But alas the seized one failed to register anything from the handbrake so it failed.
I think robbing a caliper off my old estate is the quickest fix - and hope that's still working (I'll check first)! Another cold weekend under the car >:(

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Tompion on Jan 27^th, 2012, 10:46pm

Probably not much help if your caliper isn’t working properly, however prior to an MOT with the handbrake off I push the lever on the caliper back as far as I can (the spring never returns it fully) then pull the handbrake on and release it a couple of times. I repeat this procedure several times on both sides. This gets the self adjust mechanism working, after doing this the handbrake only comes up a few clicks.

Whenever I remove a rear wheel I always give the lever pivot a squirt of chain grease.

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Simmo on Jan 28^th, 2012, 9:00am

Just to be clear. The cable is adjustable as detailed in the link which Snoopy put up. It will not,however, cure a duff caliper!. You may as well check the adjuster shown in the link because you'll need to release that in order to get the handbrake cable off the caliper. The cable runs through the suspension in protective sheaths which are very stiff and held in place by clips. These need to be released as well. Even with the clips out they need a good deal of pushing and shoving to get free movement. ???
Have a read of This page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/brake/HandbrakeCable.pdf) about replacing the cable. You should look at 2 and 6 as they are the bits that illustrate what I have said.
:)

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by Mike H on Feb 1^st, 2012, 1:19pm

I was going to suggest something like Tompion said, does operating the caliper lever directly actually move the piston (?). If handbrake lever is up as far as it will go and there's still cable slack, it canna do it laddie ;D

PS: Murphy's Law says there are no short-cuts ;D

Title: Re: Seized rear caliper
Post by PJDavis on Feb 1^st, 2012, 4:29pm

on 01/27/12 at 22:46:33, Tompion wrote:

Whenever I remove a rear wheel I always give the lever pivot a squirt of chain grease.

There speaks a fellow Biker! ;D I do the same with the autobox gear linkage. :D