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        General >> Problems >> Fuel pump relay (R17) management
        
(Message started by: Krasi on Mar 5^th, 2012, 9:24pm)

Title: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Krasi on Mar 5^th, 2012, 9:24pm

Hello,
Been reading around for a few days to find a solution to a starting/running problem with my 1997, 2.3, auto, estate.

In essence, the R17 cuts off the fuel pump power supply as soon as the engine cranks. The pump runs OK when I turn the ignition on.

I've put a jumper between two of the R17 connectors (don't remember which ones exactly at the moment), and the engine started fine. As soon as I removed the jumper though, the relay released, and the pump stopped.

I opened the relay, fixed the soldering, and testing it outside the car it closes and opens fine (both coils, that is). When in place, the relay makes a clicking noise - rapidly closing and opening the contact(s).

My question is, does anyone know where does the managing signal come from? I think I saw in a posting here that the ECU controls this R17 relay, but am not sure.

The background of the situation is that I left the car unused for about a month, so I took out the battery to keep it warm and connected to a charger. There were some extremely low temperatures (-20 Celsius), and then snow melting. I have no battery cover, only auxiliary fuse box one.

I'm leaning towards bad connection, but can't pinpoint which one, so any ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Matt on Mar 6^th, 2012, 8:53am

Quote:

I have no battery cover, only auxiliary fuse box one.

Thats going to be your problem, the fuse box will be wet, it will need removing, stripping and drying out, sadly is a well known issue with the scorpio

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by leewar on Mar 6^th, 2012, 11:15am

Hi, I have a battery cover for you. It will definitely stop future wet problems. As Matt say's, you have your work cut out stripping and drying the fuse box. Let me know. Cheers Lee

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Mike H on Mar 6^th, 2012, 1:07pm

You might be lucky with a hefty soaking of it with WD40, but if that still no good needs more drastic measures as aforementioned (?)

Plus the usual precautions, scuttle drain holes are clear, no dead leaves in the bottom of it etc..

HTH

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Krasi on Mar 6^th, 2012, 2:44pm

Thanks, for the confirmation, chaps.

I was hoping to avoid fusebox disassembly, but apparently it's coming my way... hard.

I'll soak it in WD40 or electric contact cleaner first, though. I was thinking about it, but didn't get enough courage to do it :)

I'll keep you posted.

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Krasi on Mar 6^th, 2012, 7:35pm

Well, WD40 didn't help, so I'm opening the fusebox to clean it thoroughly:

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TqQIo7O7lbk/T1Zf-8dwonI/AAAAAAAAAgY/9uXopAgLyf0/s640/IMG_1311.JPG

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TPOf__ioWA8/T1ZgExpCNuI/AAAAAAAAAgo/9b0SQLPg7lM/s640/IMG_1313.JPG

Kitchen table is all mine for next couple of days ;D

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Simmo on Mar 7^th, 2012, 7:20am

Certainly looks as if that could be the cause of your problems judging by the look of the components. Be sure to get that battery cover and check the bulkhead drain holes. :) The best way to do this is remove the bulkhead panel as shown in This article (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/battery.htm).

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Matt on Mar 7^th, 2012, 9:27am

Yep thats a soppy fuse box

once its all clean and dry another trick is to pop some of those moisture absorbing gel packs in the base

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Simmo on Mar 7^th, 2012, 9:42am

Like These (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silica-Gel-Pouches-Pack-Sachets/dp/B004XX2W5G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331113303&sr=8-1) :)

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Mike H on Mar 7^th, 2012, 12:18pm

That's OK for "damp", but fusebox mustn't ever get soaking wet again or you're back where you started ;D

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Mike H on Mar 7^th, 2012, 12:20pm

PS: how about something like PCB lacquer coating on the board?

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Matt on Mar 7^th, 2012, 1:36pm

That could work mike but once the start going green the copper is breaking down and the pins easily snap off, you have to either mask off or clean off the laquer on the connections again either way youd have to be very careful

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Krasi on Mar 8^th, 2012, 11:34am

I'm about half way now, cleaned up 4 of the layers, and have 2 more to go:

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iTjnp0DIPus/T1iUhRCO2sI/AAAAAAAAAhc/4oHHFgOfJsk/s640/IMG_1319.JPG
http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gQrhs4u2Ic0/T1iUgGQfzpI/AAAAAAAAAhM/NwJcWkoWyPU/s640/IMG_1318.JPG

I'm scrubbing each layer and copper track with a greasy rug, hoping the grease film to act as water repellent.

In the mean time, I'm considering how to make a custom battery cover. From what I see, you guys in UK, have the battery on the left-hand side, i.e. opposite the steering, right? Mine is mirrored, i.e. right-hand side, because we on the Continent drive on the "right side" of the road :)

Good part of the story is that the car is 15 y/o now, so whatever customization I make it should hold for a few years tops, I presume...

P.S. Am I the only one having problem with embedding pictures in the posts?

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by lesterlad aka Rodders on Mar 8^th, 2012, 12:04pm

on 03/08/12 at 11:34:08, Krasi wrote:

P.S. Am I the only one having problem with embedding pictures in the posts?

See 'How to do things'
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1268569404

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Mike H on Mar 8^th, 2012, 4:15pm

Dare say you could make a cover, as it's basically like a big sheet of polythene, if you're clever might heat it to fold the edges down as well (?)

Still might be worth asking one of the parts vendors for a new one?

on 03/07/12 at 13:36:50, Matt wrote:

Mask off I would ;D

The copper might rescued / strengthened if necessary by adding a layer of solder maybe?

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Krasi on Mar 8^th, 2012, 5:02pm

She's alive!!!!!!!!

Starts like a charm.

Thanks a lot for the support, fellas ;D

Mike, I "fabricated" a cover from a piece of depron I had lying around in the garage:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_qRCRVHig24/T1jkJWP1HkI/AAAAAAAAAh4/P_DV4lmlNd8/s640/IMG_1346.JPG

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kP3aTTsYaoU/T1jkIPXmrHI/AAAAAAAAAho/HVE5VlVdFj4/s640/IMG_1347.JPG

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JX2zTR9u4cU/T1jkH5jojeI/AAAAAAAAAhs/fRfe54TxYM0/s640/IMG_1348.JPG

Certainly not the best water protection in the Scorpio universe, but I hope it'll do, until I check the local car scrap yards.

I also greased intensively the pins underneath, and sprayed WD40 in the sockets above.

lesterlad, I know about the img tags, but probably there is something in picture URLs that messes up forum script, and the result is that it won't embed the photos.

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Tompion on Mar 8^th, 2012, 5:20pm

on 03/08/12 at 17:02:03, Krasi wrote:

She's alive!!!!!!!!

Starts like a charm.

Thanks a lot for the support, fellas ;D

Mike, I "fabricated" a cover from a piece of depron I had lying around in the garage:

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_qRCRVHig24/T1jkJWP1HkI/AAAAAAAAAh4/P_DV4lmlNd8/s640/IMG_1346.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kP3aTTsYaoU/T1jkIPXmrHI/AAAAAAAAAho/HVE5VlVdFj4/s640/IMG_1347.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JX2zTR9u4cU/T1jkH5jojeI/AAAAAAAAAhs/fRfe54TxYM0/s640/IMG_1348.JPG

Certainly not the best water protection in the Scorpio universe, but I hope it'll do, until I check the local car scrap yards.

I also greased intensively the pins underneath, and sprayed WD40 in the sockets above.

lesterlad, I know about the img tags, but probably there is something in picture URLs that messes up forum script, and the result is that it won't embed the photos.

To get the images in your post, click on modify (top right of your post).

In the brackets at each end of the links change url to img
Remove https:// from the links.

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Krasi on Mar 8^th, 2012, 9:07pm

Thanks, Tompion.

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Simmo on Mar 9^th, 2012, 6:53am

Congratulations on a job well done. :)

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Snoopy on Mar 9^th, 2012, 7:59am

Well done and the pictures are ALL there on my system.

;D ;D

Title: Re: Fuel pump relay (R17) management
Post by Mike H on Mar 9^th, 2012, 1:58pm

Majik! http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/th_thumbsup.gif