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        General >> Problems >> Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
        
(Message started by: Malcolm73 on Mar 6^th, 2012, 10:19am)

Title: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Malcolm73 on Mar 6^th, 2012, 10:19am

Good Morning. My car is a 24V Ultima first registered April 1997 acquired by me 1998 and now at 96,000 miles. There is a slight unusual engine rotational sound and I have found that the engine belt drive pulley is not running truly. The engine speed dial needle, yesterday become erratic but now returned to a normal steady reading. I have not discovered any information but am assuming that the twin belt pulley may require replacing. Any information would be appreciated.

Malcolm73

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Matt on Mar 6^th, 2012, 12:31pm

hiya malcolm

the erratic needle is nothing to worry about, the signal to the tacho comes from the ecu,

if you on about the main crank pully then its doubt full that it has failed on just 96K

have you tried removing the both belts and running the engine for a short period? (remember the water pump will not work)

if the sound is still present then the crank pully will be at fault, if not, put the aux belt back on, i have a feeling it will either be a seized / rough tenioner or the ac pump

matt

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Mike H on Mar 6^th, 2012, 1:12pm

Going only by past topics this sorts of noise nearly always tends to be AC pump seizing up or pulley problem, or as Matt says tensioner pulley (?)

HTH

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Malcolm73 on Mar 6^th, 2012, 2:54pm

Thank you Matt and Mike for your replies. Age is catching up (b.1932) and I have to have some work carried out elsewhere. The pulley to which I am referring is the crankshaft pulley which seems to have a tiny side to side wobble. Six months ago I mentioned this to a garage which resulted in the left hand larger tensioner being replaced together with both belts, last replaced at 50,000 miles. The smaller right hand original tensioner appears to be running smoothly. The A.C. compressor was re-gassed three years ago and again mid-February this year (£25.00 Inc. VAT at KwikFit during the winter) which of course does not guarantee that the compressor may not be failing. Is the crankshaft pulley mounted on rubber and therefore liable to failure? Can the crankshaft pulley be easily removed or do the fans have to come out? I may also try another garage for their opinion.
Regards, Malcolm73

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Matt on Mar 6^th, 2012, 6:15pm

Yes it has a rubber core as it know as a vibration damper, there will be a tiny amount of movement but for it to wobble the rubber would have to be clearly broken or damaged

they arnt the easist to remove you will need a special extractor that pulls on the inner part

the collection on bob bits ive got says its the tensioners, all the ones i have are siezed or very rough

im looking into replacement bearings for the 4l build

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by gozz on Mar 6^th, 2012, 9:08pm

Matt.
Just as a matter of interest I had a 2.4 diesel Transit with a terrible belt twitter,it had two new belts in very short order, and a new tensioner,but the row always returned in a few days.I went underneath with a stethoscope and deduced that the bottom pulley was making the noise,on very close inspection there was a very slight out of true.Biting the bullet I went to Henry and bought a new one,it was well over a hundred quid,but cured the noise.Quite why it had gone out of line was a mystery as there was no apparent damage.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Dave2302 on Mar 7^th, 2012, 10:34am

Matt, Gozz,

Yaeh seen this myself with Harmonic Damper Type pulleys, usually salt on roads, a little bit of water gets between rubber and pulley causing corrosion which in turn leads to a run out.

In extreme cases it will eventually crack or fall apart.

Malcolm,

I'd be very wary of trying another garage for their opinion, garages have been known to wreck these cars, removing a small fortune from your wallet first, simply because they don't understand them.

Stick with the devil you know, and the advice on here ;)

Cheers Dave

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by gozz on Mar 7^th, 2012, 10:52am

There spake the oracle ;D thanks for that Dave.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Mike H on Mar 7^th, 2012, 12:49pm

Well summink else I've learned! (re crankshaft pulley) ;D

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Malcolm73 on Mar 11^th, 2012, 12:09pm

Thank you all for your opinions and suggestions.

Some months ago my local garage mechanic witnessed the crankshaft pulley movement and believed it to be caused by the left hand larger tensioner. The tensioner was subsequently replaced and there did seem to be an improvement. Presently the new belts, tensioners and all pulleys seem to be running smoothly except at the crankshaft pulley although it is difficult to see the side to side movement at 750 R.P.M. Should the rubber vibration damper be faulty ultimate failure could be sudden and dramatic.

Is there anyone within a sensible distance from Stourbridge, West Midlands who has a 24 valve engine who would allow me to drive over and compare movement at the crankshaft pulley and perhaps give an opinion?

I know that this should be in parts wanted but I believe that I need a new or possibly a second hand pulley. I have tried TLC Ford, with no response but as yet not Trevor Porter at Ford Parts.

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Tompion on Mar 11^th, 2012, 1:16pm

For what it’s worth since it’s a single pulley on my 2.3 – it has run out ever since I bought the car (approx 50,000 miles ago) & the edge of the rubber you can see is cracked.
You can see it clearly at tickover, it’s side to side movement not up & down. I’ve just made a rough measurement as the pulley is flush with the centre on one side & not the other. It’s about .8 mm.

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Matt on Mar 11^th, 2012, 4:04pm

Malcolm

im in birmingham but my 24v is at my partners house in west brom at the mo, i start work at 2 so if you can pop over in the morning you can compare mine

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Malcolm73 on Mar 11^th, 2012, 9:30pm

Tompion, thank you for the estimated measurement on your 2.3 litre. My pulley is probably moving more than 0.8 mm however I am hoping that Matt who does not live too far away can give me his opinion and I have just sent him an email to arrange a meeting.

Title: Re: Engine belt drive pulley problem. 24 valve.
Post by Matt on Mar 12^th, 2012, 5:55pm

Hiya malcolm

thursday is best for me, i work evening shifts so after 9 but before 1 lol

ill pm you the address