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        General >> Problems >> Door Open Buzzer
        
(Message started by: Glyn on Jun 20^th, 2012, 11:27pm)

Title: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 20^th, 2012, 11:27pm

Can anyone help. My recently aquired '95 Ultima cossie has a fault in that the door ajar buzzer sounds continually if the drivers door is open, regardless of which position the gear selector is in even with no key in the ignition, in addition there is no "light on" chime presumably because the buzzer is sounding. Everything else seems to be working normally. ???
Anyone had this happen before?

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by gozz on Jun 21^st, 2012, 12:33am

Pos faulty switch on gear selector.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 21^st, 2012, 12:14pm

Thanks gozz. Is that the one on the side of the gearbox ?

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Simmo on Jun 21^st, 2012, 1:07pm

Have a look at the relevant link in Fault Finder (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm). Door switch. Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/electrical/auxwarnsys/doorajarswfr.pdf).
Links are listed in Transmission concerns. :)

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 21^st, 2012, 2:09pm

If PRNGL switch, as regards the "special tool" in:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/autotrans/TransRangSens.pdf

What the guys tend to do is put alignment marks on the gearbox and the sensor, so that you can see how the replacement goes on at the same angle.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 21^st, 2012, 7:51pm

Thanks folks I'll investigate ASAP.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 21^st, 2012, 9:03pm

Does the transmission switch signal the EECV because the car will start OK in P or N but not in any of the drive positions which suggests to me that the transmission position selector switch is probably working normally.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 12:26pm

Good point.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 12:55pm

Right found it, page 10

PDF: Starting Systems (https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=eb36f845ea9b8fb6&id=EB36F845EA9B8FB6%21146#cid=EB36F845EA9B8FB6&id=EB36F845EA9B8FB6%21183)

'A' comes from starter inhibit relay, goes through separate switches in the 'PRNGL switch' (as I thought, from memory), so nothing to do with the PRNGL range sensor for PCM.

Thence it goes to PATS, so PATS can disable starting. If no PATS, goes to ground (chassis earth). Either way PRNGL enables starter inhibit relay by grounding it in 'P' & 'N' only, using different contacts to the gearbox ratio selector (range sensor).

HTH

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 1:36pm

Thanks for that Mike H, but still confused.
If PRNGL is selecting the right gear then it must be positioned correctly and transmission range sensor is sending correct signal to the PCM.
PATS must also be getting correct signal to allow starting , or have I got that wrong ?
Where does the buzzer module get its signal from- is it the EECV?
Glyn

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 2:08pm

This is getting more complicated - it could be Powertrain Control Module on page 10, getting high Volts when when it should be low in 'P' position. Most likely a bad wire connection? I presume starter work in 'P' & 'N'? If so possibly bad wire between P102 & A147

There's also a separate reverse switch in the PRNGL, see here:

Park Position System (https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=eb36f845ea9b8fb6&id=EB36F845EA9B8FB6%21146#cid=EB36F845EA9B8FB6&id=EB36F845EA9B8FB6%21196)

Doesn't show how that connects to the PCM but it must do somewhere.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Simmo on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 3:48pm

Could this not be the door switch ?. ???

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 4:55pm

Mike I must be missing something -can't find P102 or A147 on the 24v arm of the tree on Page 10.
Yes it does start in "P" and "N"
I see the separate reverse switch within the PRNGL switch-is there a separate switch for "P" and "N" which links with the door switch?
Interesting that on my other 24v as soon as you press the release button on the selector lever the buzzer sounds (with door open) even before you move the lever-even a little!
More and more complicated.

Simmo ,would it still be the door switch as the noise stops if you close the door or just press the switch in
Glyn

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Tompion on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 5:35pm

The release button on my 2.3 functions the same as on your other 24v so I would imagine that may be your problem.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 6:02pm

Thanks Tompion, thats helpful but I wonder what the button moves to do that. Must be mechanical via the push-rod because apparently only 2 wires go up the stick ,-to the O/D button.
Glyn

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by gozz on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 8:09pm

Is there not a little mechanical switch at the bottom of the gear lever ? I always cut the wire at the timer module on the funeral vehicles because the noise is unnecessary and we tended to always use the handbrake.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 10:56pm

Thanks gozz. Do you mean a switch at the bottom of the gear selector release button push rod ? I am assuming the push rod is for the release button but I cant find a diagram which shows where it goes or just how it works.Which wire did you cut?

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by gozz on Jun 22^nd, 2012, 11:51pm

Yes Glyn,I vaguely remember a little switch somewhere inside the centre console,if you remove the plug from the timer module near your left knee inside the trim board and hold it with the contacts towards you and the locating lug at the bottom,the wire is the extreme right one on the upper row,usually orange and yellow,but I had one once that for some reason was orange and green.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 23^rd, 2012, 1:08am

Thanks gozz that gives me something to work on.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 23^rd, 2012, 3:01pm

on 06/22/12 at 18:02:40, Glyn wrote:

Thanks Tompion, thats helpful but I wonder what the button moves to do that.

Maybe that just jiggles the stick slightly so the contacts are disturbed; so sounds like they may be wearing out.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 23^rd, 2012, 3:12pm

on 06/22/12 at 16:55:22, Glyn wrote:

Mike I must be missing something -can't find P102 or A147 on the 24v arm of the tree on Page 10.

Sorry I was looking a the wrong one, it's the middle one then, just all goes through P - N switches to PATS

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 24^th, 2012, 1:11am

Gozz and Mike and anybody else who may know
I may have located a diagram that shows the switch to which you refer (spent most of the day looking at any post related-went through all 324 or so pages in problems forum!) . This shows it http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/autoselector.jpg a microswitch labelled PRNGL switch 16.
If this switch is u/s and does not close(or open)then buzzer would sound in any position with drivers door open but would PATS allow it to start if it shares this switch and that does not account for a start in "N" . IS it possible that pats has separate swithes to "P" & "N" or get its signal from the transmission selector switch ?
Glyn

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Tompion on Jun 24^th, 2012, 12:15pm

From here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccmonitor.htm

“TRANSMISSION RANGE SENSOR (TRS)

The TRS is also known as the PRNGL switch. In fact it is a variable resistor, not a switch, and on EECV equipped Scorpios it moderates the 5V signal voltage to high with a low resistance in position 1 to the lowest voltage with the highest resistance in P.”

The question is (assuming it’s the problem with yours) whether there’s a buzzer switch (assuming it is a switch) in the TRS or outside it.

The button on mine goes in further before it makes contact with the mechanism on all other positions compared to the park position suggesting a switch is deactivated only when the mechanism fully extends.
The car will start with the button pushed in (door open alarm sounding) indeed it will start with the auto lever pulled back a little from the park position.

The wiring diagrams show a dashed arrow in the TRS, I would imagine this may indicate an external switch/earth but may be internal.

My guess is what activates the buzzer has nothing to do with PATS

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Tompion on Jun 24^th, 2012, 1:38pm

I decided it was easier to have a look :)
If you lift up the cover shown as 6 on page 2 here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/autotrans/SelectorMechanism.pdf

Below it you’ll see a micro switch on top of the PRNGL (you can see it in the picture you posted). This is for the door chime and is activated by a cross pin on the selector – possibly pin 13 in that picture.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 24^th, 2012, 3:27pm

A-ha, ties up with pins 1 - 9 on the connector, 'parking lock'. Can't find it in the circuit diagrams though.

If Glyn's lucky just is not being pushed far enough in park position. I agree very unlikely has owt to do wih PATS

See also:
Fault Finder (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm)

Item: "Alarm sounds when gear selection is in P", "Maladjusted selector lever" (?)

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 24^th, 2012, 6:30pm

Tompion and Mike thank you very much -this looks very promising and logical. Possibly the pin does engage the microswitch looking at the exploded diagram of the selector and as Mike says the wires are shown going to the multiplug of which pins1 and 9 are labelled Parking Lock. I will investigate and let you know what transpires . I know someone has been fiddling under the centre console at one time (not me) replacing a relay for the heated seats apparently.
I don't think its related to PATS either.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Tompion on Jun 24^th, 2012, 7:18pm

What I was saying was I looked at it this afternoon & the pin engages the micro switch - indeed you can work the switch by hand and cancel the buzzer when the selector is in gear. the lever on the switch is fairly long & may just need bending slightly to get it to work.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 24^th, 2012, 10:52pm

Tompion thanks-you have confirmed what Gozz said and what is shown on the gear selector diagram ie there is a park microswitch and now I have had a look on my parts car (slowly being dismantled). The retaining pin for the gear lever runs in grooves with notches for each position and when you push the release button to push the lever into "P" the pin is pushed down and passes UNDER the microswitch lever thus lifting it up and operating the switch when the button is released. Fingers crossed that it is to do with that switch. Iwill let you know !

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Simmo on Jun 25^th, 2012, 7:19am

Glyn. If possible a couple of photos might help for future queries. :)

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 25^th, 2012, 11:19am

Yep!

on 06/24/12 at 19:18:04, Tompion wrote:

the lever on the switch is fairly long & may just need bending slightly to get it to work.

Yep!

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 25^th, 2012, 1:33pm

Yes I was going to anyway but so akward to get a good view so I might have to use my snake scope camera. Incidentally just tested the donor car and microswich is open in the "P" position. To operate in conjunction with the door switch surely there must be a relay involved somewhere?

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 25^th, 2012, 2:42pm

Implying it's closed in all other positions.

Not necessarily, if the microswitch has changeover contacts (they often do), just means it has to be depressed to turn it off, else normally on.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 25^th, 2012, 2:44pm

Sorry re the relay question, I imagine it goes back to the gubbins that's got the buzzer, how it works in there I've no idea.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 25^th, 2012, 4:12pm

Thanks folks. Problem SOLVED-peace and quiet!
Got to dash -will post more details later but briefly it was the gear selector retaining pin 13 on the diagram whicch was too far over to the left (passenger side) and therefore missing the microswitch lever altogether. Simply knocked it through a bit more to the right and now works fine!
Simmo had a bit of trouble with photos as digital camera found with broken screen - naturally nobody knows anything about it ! Fortunately spare camera ok so if you let me know how to post pics I will di so with an explanation of how etc
Glyn

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by lesterlad aka Rodders on Jun 25^th, 2012, 10:37pm

on 06/25/12 at 16:12:42, Glyn wrote:

Fortunately spare camera ok so if you let me know how to post pics I will di so with an explanation of how etc
Glyn

Posting Pics.
How to do things > > http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1268569404

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Simmo on Jun 26^th, 2012, 6:19am

Good to hear that you've solved it. Tompion was 'on the ball' again!. ;D

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 26^th, 2012, 7:22pm

Congratulations. ;D

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 26^th, 2012, 8:23pm

Pictures look very complicated for an old buffer like me- no way to email pics and short description?

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Jun 29^th, 2012, 1:41pm

Could try sending them to me ;D

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Jun 30^th, 2012, 1:07am

Thanks Mike I'll do that when I have a spare minute or two.

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Mike H on Apr 26^th, 2013, 3:45pm

Received this by e-mail:

on 04/25/13 at 17:47:01, Glyn wrote:

Door Buzzer

The problem was that the door open buzzer sounded whenever the drivers door was opened no matter what position the drive selector was in-not just P.

After lots of help from members I investigated . I removed the selector surround (it just lifts up) leaving just the indicator panel with the lights to be slid up the selector lever as far as possible giving just enough room to see from the drivers side and to get my fingers in(helps to have ex gynaecological fingers)

The selector lever is held in place by a retaining pin which passes through it from side to side .The ends of this pin run in a plastic slot which has notches in its upper edge which correspond to each of the PRNDL positions and the pin is spring loaded so that the pin engages the notch and prevents the selector moving. The selector is released by pressing the release button on the selector lever, this pushes the pin down against the spring out of the notch allowing it to slide along the groove to a new position.

Mounted in front and just to the right of the selector mechanism is a microswitch with a long metal arm bent up at the end and this arm runs alongside the plastic grooved guide. This switch operates the door buzzer. As the selector lever is moved into the P position (you can only do it with the release button pressed) the retaining pin (pushed down in the slot) passes UNDER the microswitch arm and thus lifts it when the button is released- this operates the microswitch thus silencing the buzzer but only in the P position as the arm is not long enough to be operated by the pin in any other position.

I found in my case the retaining pin was pushed too far through to the left and the short stub on the right missed the microswitch arm altogether . It was easy to tap the pin into a central position and thus problem solved ! Thanks to all who helped.

Glyn

http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/scorpio-157-arrow.jpg

http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/scorpio-162-copy.jpg

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Simmo on Apr 26^th, 2013, 4:58pm

Mike and Glynn thanks for that. I'm sure it will be a great help in the future. ;)

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on Apr 26^th, 2013, 9:40pm

Simmo
No problem,My thaks to Mike for doing that for me.
Glyn

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by cwill62 on May 8^th, 2013, 2:37pm

Hello, just reading about your problem, I had same thing on my 2.3 ultima tried everything, it turned out to be a relay in the auxiliary fuse box that powers interior lights hope this helps.
My interior lights were not working and the buzzer sounded all the time while driving

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Glyn on May 25^th, 2013, 1:08am

Interesting. I didn't know there was a connection
Glyn

Title: Re: Door Open Buzzer
Post by Simmo on May 25^th, 2013, 8:25am

on 05/08/13 at 14:37:36, cwill62 wrote:

Can you clarify which relay this was please?. I'm guessing it was No.16 which is the battery power saver but confirmation would be helpful. Thank you.