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        General >> Problems >> ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
        
(Message started by: Glyn on Jan 15^th, 2013, 1:04am)

Title: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Glyn on Jan 15^th, 2013, 1:04am

Some of you will have seen my request in "Parts Wanted",-here is the story for suggestions.
Ultima '95 12v 2.9 bought summer 2011 33k miles had intermittent ABS light sometimes on startup, sometimes rolling which eventually became permenantly on. Had it serviced and codes read by local autoelecrician(Ford trained)-ABS reported faulty front N/S sensor. Bought new sensor but when going to fit it tested resistance of old one and got 1.1k ohms therefore left it until it could be scanned again. This time there was no communication with the module which we presumed had gone down hence request for spare which PJ kindly sent me (had a sticker saying had been reconditioned in the past).
Duely fitted but not communicating and light still on permenantly.He eventually got some response on his machine only by using the Ford Canada setting. Still no codes but was able to respond to the reset command .Inthe meantime he had replaced the front n/s sensor anyway(got the old one out undamaged!)
Light went out on start bur now comes on showing rolling fault-still no codes available.
Suggestions welcome about 1, what to do next(he is going to pin everything out clean sensors etc)
2, why no codes and why have to use Canadian setting
Glyn

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Tompion on Jan 15^th, 2013, 1:28am

Check the new sensor is as close to the sensor ring as the one on the other side.
One I lent Simmo that was supposed to have come from a Scorpio had too big an air gap which caused it to fail the rolling test.
I can only assume the problem with reading the codes is with the reader being used.

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Glyn on Jan 15^th, 2013, 1:39am

Thanks Tompion, will check the gap . The reader is the same one which originally gave the front n/s fault and worked ok then
Glyn

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by bernard_slade on Jan 15^th, 2013, 1:45am

i think i would want to examine closely the connector under the front wheelarch that the sensor lead plugs in to -the new sensor and lead is ok but that lead plugs in to a connector which is always vulnerable to water ingress and corrosion also being a 95 model the wiring itself is suspect so i would be looking for chafing or just brittle insulation,cross wire shorting or even a broken wire at the underwing plug connector.it sounds like your old sensor was ok which leads me back to wiring continuity

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Glyn on Jan 15^th, 2013, 1:59am

Thanks for that-yes we are going to look at the wiring but it does pass the static test on start up-if we could get the reader to work it might tell us where to aim for when the rolling fault occurs.
Glyn

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Tompion on Jan 15^th, 2013, 2:09am

Where are you located, there may be someone near who could read the codes.
If you sent me the old controller I could patch it into my car & read the codes, however there’s always the chance you may have introduced extra fault codes whilst testing.

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Glyn on Jan 15^th, 2013, 2:36am

Thanks I'll bear that in mind, might know more tomorrow. l am in Manchester
Glyn

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Simmo on Jan 15^th, 2013, 7:43am

What amazes me is that he got the sensor out undamaged! ::) Firstly what was his secret because I have never heard of anyone being succesful until now and secondly are you sure it was the correct sensor in the first place. As Tompion, the ABS guru ;), says one he had was not right for our cars and the air gap was too big between it and the sensor ring. We did manage to lower it but clearly that gap is critical. IIRC it needs to be about 5 thou or less. I know we were checking it with a feeler gauge. The obvious thing about the sensor Tomp had was that the the rubber grommets on the lead were clearly in the 'wrong ' place compared to the original although the connector was identical. Please let us know how things go. :)

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by bernard_slade on Jan 15^th, 2013, 2:32pm

years back i did remove all my abs sensors to clean etc -the rh front came out ok but i stuffed the left one getting it out and had to spend 80 quid on a new one from fords.i greased them all before replacing them-i suppose they get cooked with the heat transfer on brakingl

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Glyn on Jan 15^th, 2013, 7:10pm

Tompion looks as though you are right about the code reader-he says betweenthe 1st read and later he had a software update and feels it is a bug in the upgrade which prevents reading the codes. He is investigating.
Glyn

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Glyn on Jan 15^th, 2013, 7:12pm

PS The new sensor was new off the bay and plug and grommets were identical.
Glyn

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Mike H on Jan 20^th, 2013, 3:51pm

on 01/15/13 at 01:04:02, Glyn wrote:

intermittent ABS light sometimes on startup, sometimes rolling which eventually became permenantly on.

This can also be caused by low battery Voltage, make sure it's well charged up before re-checking this behaviour again.

Guess how I know. ;D

I think also dirty fuses / connectors could cause what looks like low battery in some places, e.g. dashboard diagnostics, I need to check this out sometime soon. But when the weather is better!

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Glyn on Jan 20^th, 2013, 9:41pm

Thanks I will bear that in mind although fairly sure the battery was fairly well charged.

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Tompion on Jan 20^th, 2013, 10:20pm

There is an ABS code for low battery, so that should have been picked up by the code reader if it was the problem.
B1676 (BPVOOR – Battery pack voltage out of range)

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Glyn on Jan 21^st, 2013, 12:20am

Thanks for that -I'll check.

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by ro284 on Jan 21^st, 2013, 10:25am

Glyn, What you are describing now, is the same symptoms as i had, abs light on permanently, also same car, same year, same wiring, can you not unplug the abs multiplug, and check not only continuity on both rear sensors, but also check for any reading to earth or chassis on those wires, after disconnecting the sensor plugs under rear seat, Any reading on any one of the 2 pairs, may help isolate the problem! i only mention rears because they are wired through the troublesome loom! it is easy to do, i by-passed mine and got the m.o.t, Sadly the real problem ‘loom breaking down’ showed up later, but all ok now, have a look at- Re: ABS, Light, help please. (ro284) thankfully Tompion has diagrams, Bob

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Simmo on Jan 21^st, 2013, 12:27pm

on 01/21/13 at 10:25:35, ro284 wrote:

Sadly the real problem ‘loom breaking down’ showed up later, but all ok now, have a look at- Re: ABS, Light, help please. (ro284) thankfully Tompion has diagrams, Bob

I think This (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1355222084;start=14#14) is what Bob is referring to? :)

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by ro284 on Jan 21^st, 2013, 8:47pm

Hi simmo, no not that one, i was thinking about the How to rewire the loom, post, hopefully there will be some pics added to that soon, and the damage can be seen, it may make more sense then.
Bob

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Simmo on Jan 21^st, 2013, 8:55pm

on 01/21/13 at 20:47:12, ro284 wrote:

Hi simmo, no not that one, i was thinking about the How to rewire the loom, post, hopefully there will be some pics added to that soon, and the damage can be seen, it may make more sense then.
Bob

This one then (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1358685207)

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Glyn on Jan 22^nd, 2013, 1:06am

Thanks Bob and Simmo,Iam aware of the potential loom problem.
Update now is that we just have a rolling ABS fault-the light goes out on startup. A different code reader shows various sensor mismatches and removal of the rear sensors shows them both to have cracked plastic and badly corroded heads.Before connecting replacements I will check the wiring with multimeter as you suggest . More later.
Glyn

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Tompion on Jan 22^nd, 2013, 3:04pm

It's corrosion of the aluminium insert for the bolt hole that usually causes the cracking, as long as you get a similar resistance to the front ones it shouldn't matter.
compare the lengths of the rear sensors. They should be flat but can become concave if they rub on the sensor ring during bearing failure which can cause too big an air gap.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1155408212;start=0#0

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by a900one on Jan 22^nd, 2013, 6:18pm

I have the same fault, light goes off untill 15 mph, stayed off for over ten trips. My rear sensors have the plastic split where they are bolted on, corroded and I expect distorted. As its very wet at the moment, no snow here ;D, I will see if I can remount them when dry.

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems
Post by Glyn on Jan 22^nd, 2013, 10:37pm

Thanks Dave, and for the link. I will examine and measure.
Glyn

Title: Re: ABS UPDATE-continuing problems -sorted?
Post by Glyn on Mar 6^th, 2013, 11:18pm

Many thanks to all-sorted at present.
Full details when I have all the pieces of the puzzle-had to involve my auto elecrician in the end. Tried 3 modules in all but no luck with them (no code readings) and resistances checked out. Eventually got use of a scanner which did read(think we might be back on the original module) and this showed static test ok but when moving a variety of faults with various sensors .Loom felt ok and unwrapped in engine bay but looked ok so decided to re-wire all wheel sensors back to module plug and put in new K-line. Now ok and has just passed MOT but I can't help feeling just a matter of time before the loom gives more problems. Also wish there was some way to test the modules I have. Any one know whether it would be the same on the 12v and 2.0 of the same vintage?