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        General >> Problems >> Oh no - 1st breakdown.
        
(Message started by: amigafan2003 on Jan 17th, 2013, 11:10am)
Title: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 17th, 2013, 11:10am
Pulled up at a junction near work, noticed steam coming from bonnet - pulled round the corner, popped the bonnet and noticed a bit of water around the front of the engine.  Topped up with 2l of coolant I always keep in the boot and drove to work (only a couple of mins away) keeping an eye on the temp gauge - didn't get above normal.

Pulled into a space at work, switched engine off and popped the bonnet - could hear water running fro0m near the bottom of the rad and the header tank had emptied.

Currently waiting for the RAC bloke to turn up - 4 hr wait time today!

Hopefully it's just popped a hose off - if not I'll get towed home and investigate on the driveway.  Hope it's not something like a blown headgasket presurising the cooling system!

Wish me luck!
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Matt on Jan 17th, 2013, 11:14am
what engine mate?

if its a 24v it could be the rads ballooned and popped.

also the top hoses on them can get week, start to balloon and catch the belt
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 17th, 2013, 11:29am
It is a 24v and yes, the rad has been showing signs of ballooning - it was a job on the list for when it gets a bit warmer :-(
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by leewar on Jan 17th, 2013, 1:06pm
Are you going for the 2.0L rad conversion?
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 17th, 2013, 2:29pm
Good call Matt - once the undertray was removed you could see water streaming out of the bottom right corner of the rad.

So - now the hunt for a suitable replacement.  I was going to fit a 2.3 rad with the auto box connectors - but the cheapest I can find is £180.  I have found a 2.3 manual rad for £135.  I don't tow so I could just join the cooler pipes together.  I might even consider a good condition second hand 2.3 rad.

Leewar - whats this "2.0 conversion"?
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 17th, 2013, 2:40pm
Found a 2.3 rad with auto connections here for £116 - not bad.

http://www.onlineautomotive.co.uk/Ford_Scorpio_Radiators.aspx
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Simmo on Jan 17th, 2013, 4:38pm

on 01/17/13 at 14:29:32, amigafan2003 wrote:
Leewar - whats this "2.0 conversion"?


The 'experts' will no doubt fill in the detail but IIRC essentially it means replacing the 24v rad with a 2.0ltr one and modifying the pipework slightly.  :)
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 17th, 2013, 5:29pm

on 01/17/13 at 16:38:25, Simmo wrote:
modifying the pipework slightly.  :)


Just blanking off one of the small hose outlets on the header tank as far as I'm aware?
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Andycan on Jan 17th, 2013, 5:34pm
or put a header tank off a 2.0 on the car
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Matt on Jan 17th, 2013, 5:51pm
ive got a cossie one,  was going yo sell it to dan but hes flogged his scorpio now offered it him for £50 which is what id offer it you for but really dont like posting them, wouldnt be tge first thats turned up damager

ill test it for water tightness again and post a pic up tomorrow
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 17th, 2013, 6:57pm
Hi Matt - I'd be interested in the rad if it tests ok.  No signs of ballooning?

I haven't got another car to use though so I'd have to take the risk on posting.
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Matt on Jan 17th, 2013, 9:27pm
the rads in vgc tbh hence i was selling to dan, dont think it had been fitted to the car long before i broke it for spares

where are you located btw?
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Tenfut on Jan 17th, 2013, 9:32pm
He is located in Blackpool
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 17th, 2013, 9:54pm
Yup.
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by a900one on Jan 18th, 2013, 12:14pm
When you fit the new rad check the valve in the cap will open, mine had stuck closed.
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 18th, 2013, 12:43pm
I might just put a new one on it - they are only £6 new.
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 21st, 2013, 8:58pm
2nd hand 2.3 auto rad acquired for the princely sum of £19.50 posted.
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Dave2302 on Jan 24th, 2013, 4:38pm

on 01/17/13 at 14:29:32, amigafan2003 wrote:
 I don't tow so I could just join the cooler pipes together.


Do that and you'll wreck the gearbox very quickly  :(

The coolers are there to remove heat from the converter under normal driving conditions.
If towing an extra cooler kit should be ftted  ;)

HTH Dave
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 24th, 2013, 5:15pm
That's me told!

The rad I've aquired has the auto cooler, so it's good :-)
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by a900one on Jan 24th, 2013, 5:56pm
You did well to get one for that price.
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 25th, 2013, 11:18am
I know.

Although a brand new 24v rad has turned up on ebay for £99 starting bid as well :-)
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by gozz on Jan 25th, 2013, 8:28pm
As the disgruntled auctioneer would say "it's not where we start it's where we finish"   8)
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Dave2302 on Jan 30th, 2013, 11:13am

on 01/25/13 at 11:18:28, amigafan2003 wrote:
I know.

Although a brand new 24v rad has turned up on ebay for £99 starting bid as well :-)


Also if you search 24V Cosworth Racing Radiator you will find a beautiful Ally Rad at a ridiculously cheap price  ;)

It will require slight mods to the mounts and also an independant transmission cooler fitting, but it will give far superior cooling capacity and it will never balloon.

I'm running one on my V6 Cosworth Puma, (manual 4X4 transmission)..............
Also to stop the rads ballooning and get rid of stupidly high running temperature I did 2 more mods.................

Remove and junk the stupid stat in the bottom hose, along with the stupid bypass hose that runs through between N/S Block and Head face.

Get a BOA Stat housing.
Weld an ally disc in the bypass hose fitting in a BOA Stat housing.
Fit BOA Thermostat housing with an 80 degree stat in it.
Fit an 86 degree on / 82 degree off fan switch in the alloy radiator (threaded bung already in rad), and wire it to the high speed fan relay.

This gets the unduly high underbonnet temperatures way down to sensible levels, making things like wiring less likely to be damaged due to excess heat.
It stops the Rads ballooning, (caused by excessive water pump pressure when stat closed).
It also means you'll never again have to change that silly bypass hose that runs through the head and block joint. (The heater circuit passes enough coolant for a bypass circulation).

There is a days work here in little bits of fabrication, and a few bis to be sourced, (BOA housing, 80 deg stat and a longer bottom hose), but my Puma sits there ticking over on the hottest day, with the fans cycling for 30 seconds then off, just like grandads shopping trolley  ;)

And when you open the bonnet, even after a 2nd and 3rd gear thrash down a long stage, there is no "Nuclear Meltdown" heat trying to rip the skin off your face  ;D

There endeth todays top tips for your Cossie V6 cooling system  ;D  ;D

Cheers Dave    
 
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Jan 30th, 2013, 7:49pm
Yeah, I'd seen that rad - one for the summer I think.

I've been reading up on the auto "cooler" circuit in the rad and I don't think it's a cooler at all.  It actually seems to be a heater/stabiliser to get the fluid up to temp quickly.  The auto box pumps fluid to an independent cooler and then from there into the rad and back again to the auto box.

So, if anything, omitting the auto rad will over cool the fluid, not overheat it.
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Dave2302 on Jan 31st, 2013, 10:02am

on 01/30/13 at 19:49:54, amigafan2003 wrote:
Yeah, I'd seen that rad - one for the summer I think.

The auto box pumps fluid to an independent cooler and then from there into the rad and back again to the auto box.

So, if anything, omitting the auto rad will over cool the fluid, not overheat it.


Those Rads are really well made and such good value  :)

Now I've never tested the flow direction...........but............

On all the other auto cars I've seen over many years in the transmission industry, with a rad cooler and extra cooler the fluid goes through the rad first then the extra rad............basics in transmission design for cooling superheated oil from the converter !!
If it does indeed actually flow through the rad first then someone at Fords thingyed up.........Maybe why on average Scorpios get less mileage out of an A4LD than other vehicles with the same basic tranny  :(

That oil can come out of the box at 180 c plus on a hot day and going up a steep hill, even with no extra load, so the rad coolant will definitely be cooling it  ;)

If fitting that rad in an auto, I would strongly recomend an Extra Large aftermarket transmission cooler kit, to replace the one in front of the rad.
They come in all shapes and sizes and cost £50 - £100.........
Cheap insuance for your tranny  ;)

Cheers Dave
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Feb 2nd, 2013, 4:09pm
Ok - 2.3 rad fitted all ok :-)  Sheared pass side mounting bolt off though - for now I've just used a u bracket to support it on that side - bolted to the mounting for the air con condenser.  I'll drill the stud out later when I have more patience :-)

Oh, and the water pump seems to be weeping :-(  Not sure if it's the gasket or the pinion.

Dave - what's your turn around time on pumps?
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Dave2302 on Feb 6th, 2013, 9:57am
Slow atm due to loads of other commitments, but should be able to do it before 1/3/13
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by amigafan2003 on Feb 6th, 2013, 10:21am
Ok - cool.

It's stopped dripping now - wonder if the seal started to dry out as it was stood for a while?

I'll keep an eye on it - maybe find a 2nd hand one for re-conditioning so I can swap in a day without the car being off the road.
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by Dave2302 on Feb 11th, 2013, 10:07am
Yeah, that's a good idea, if snyone has any old ones they could post me then I could use a couple that I can rebuild and keep in stock.

I can do them by return post then  :)

Seals can dry out when they're getting old  :)

Cheers Dave
Title: Re: Oh no - 1st breakdown.
Post by leewar on Feb 11th, 2013, 9:03pm
I have a new pump from a 2.0L if that fits ;) Cheers Lee


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