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        General >> Problems >> Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
        
(Message started by: Technology2005 on Jul 12^th, 2013, 9:39am)

Title: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Technology2005 on Jul 12^th, 2013, 9:39am

The rear wheel bearing on the Scorpio failed and gave a lovely grinding/rumbling sound so decided to have a go at replacing it myself.

This is the first time I have replaced a wheel bearing so as expected it isn't going too smoothly (pun not intended)

First I couldn't get the big hub nut to loosen with the car on the ground so after much cursing I had an idea. I used a hydraulic trolley jack to apply pressure to the end of the breaker bar and gained a guesstimated 1/4 ton of pressure which loosened the nut in no time (I can just imagine some of you cringing at this but it worked so I'm happy ;D ).

Next problem was the brake disc would not come off the hub. It wasn't corroded on as I only fitted new discs and calipers last year but it was simply too tight to fit over the hub, as though the hub had a lip stopping it coming off. It moved loosely but would not slip over the hub to come off. ???

So I used a hub pulling tool to remove the hub complete with brake disc which worked fine. Then a bit of gentle persuasion ;) separated the disc from the hub whilst on the ground.

The next problem, and the one that I'm stuck with, is that the bearing on the hub did not slide off and is very firmly attached to the hub :'(. I managed to remove the bearing cage but the inner race just will not shift.

Has anyone come across this and can someone suggest a method or methods for separating the inner race from the hub. I'd like to reuse the hub if I can as I am still without a spare.

Many thanks,

David

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Andycan on Jul 12^th, 2013, 10:50am

This is for the 2.9 12v but I think it might help.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/rhubs.htm

Andy

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Simmo on Jul 12^th, 2013, 11:01am

Dave, in order to remove the inner race I can only suggest applying heat.

The rear hub nut HAS to be torqued up to 200ft/lbs (270 newton meters). That is why it was difficult to undo. This type of load is usually only possible with a 3/4 drive large torque wrench as the DIY style normally go no where near that level. Once tightened on it should be rechecked after a couple of hundred miles as they have been known to work loose. ;)

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jul 12^th, 2013, 11:07am

Do you mean the inner track of the outer bearing is stuck on the hub shaft ?
I had this on a Sierra 4x4 on the front axles - think I ended up removing it by gentle taps with a hammer & cold chisel against the lip on the bearing track BUT be aware that the bearing tracks are hardened and bits of metal chip off very easily - if you can move it just enough to get a screwdriver or 2 in behind the track, you may be able to 'persuade' it to come off.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Technology2005 on Jul 12^th, 2013, 11:09am

on 07/12/13 at 10:50:24, Andycan wrote:

This is for the 2.9 12v but I think it might help.
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/rhubs.htm

Andy

Thanks Andy - that was the guide I used for removing the hub. I don't think Dave Richards had the problem I have where the inner race is stuck on the hub, although googling it does seem to suggest it's a fairly common problem on cars in general.

David

Snoopy says
Dave Richards did have that very same problem and it was after he had removed the bearing cap which was eventually hammered off using a cold chisel and lump hammer that the damage was found. I did NOT use the old hub again. and replaced the other side with a new hub. I seem to recall that they are the same as the sierra, but I may be wrong with that one.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Technology2005 on Jul 12^th, 2013, 11:12am

on 07/12/13 at 11:01:57, Simmo wrote:

Makes me wish I had oxy acetylene gear here...and the skill to use it to heat up the offending parts!

I was aware of the huge torque on the nut, but even with a whopper of a breaker bar it still refused to shift.... jacking against the bar did shift it as it used the cars weight
;D

(basically I need bigger muscles I hear you all say lol)

David

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Technology2005 on Jul 12^th, 2013, 11:15am

on 07/12/13 at 11:07:13, Scorpio_Mike wrote:

Thanks Mike, that is exactly what I meant. I will give this a try as I have a big hammer and cold chisel...and protective goggles. 8)

I suppose drenching it in WD wouldn't harm before starting either.

David

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Tompion on Jul 12^th, 2013, 11:22am

The fit of these seems to vary, whether Ford revised it I don’t know.
Some people report the cones are a sliding fit & the assembly can be dismantled/assembled as shown on the site.
Mine are a very tight friction fit – the hub & carrier has to be assembled off the car & fitted as a unit.
It was a major effort to get the outer cone off. The inner cone I tried various pullers, removing the cage & pulling on the lip just broke the lip off. In the end I ground down one side with an angle – once I got close the shaft it cracked open & I pulled it off.
If the outer cone came off easily (logically it should be the same fit as the inner one (unless someone used loctite on the tight one)) carefully check the shaft for wear in case it’s been revolving.

If yours are as tight as mine assembly will be difficult without a press even warming the cones & putting the hub in the freezer was of little benefit.
As ever you should never put pressure on the rollers – I’m pretty sure that’s why mine failed, they hadn’t been assembled properly. Also with mine they hadn’t cleaned up properly the nicks where they’d removed the cups thus putting extra preload on the bearings as the cups weren’t fully seated.

I’ve referred to inner/outer in relation to the assembly - not the car.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Simmo on Jul 12^th, 2013, 11:26am

Dave, I've just had a word with Gozz and he says if you have oxyacetylene great because you need to only heat the bearing part and do so quickly. Failing that use an angle grinder to cut ALMOST through and then use the technical equipment you suggest!. ;)

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by amigafan2003 on Jul 12^th, 2013, 11:32am

You usually fine the inner races aren't worn so can be left in place when refitting the rest of the new bearing kit - they are harder than the ball bearings so it's these that wear.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Technology2005 on Jul 12^th, 2013, 11:38am

on 07/12/13 at 11:32:37, amigafan2003 wrote:

You usually fine the inner races aren't worn so can be left in place when refitting the rest of the new bearing kit - they are harder than the ball bearings so it's these that wear.

Sadly the inner race is damaged as two of the rollers had broken up giving me the lovely rumble. It will have to come off if at all possible.

The most likely scenario will involve WD40, an angle grinder, cold chisel + big hammer and screwdrivers (in no particular order) ;)

After all that I still have the inner bearing assembly plus the outer race of the outer bearing to remove from the hub carrier.

Still, it's an experience :)

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Tompion on Jul 12^th, 2013, 12:20pm

on 07/12/13 at 11:32:37, amigafan2003 wrote:

You usually fine the inner races aren't worn so can be left in place when refitting the rest of the new bearing kit - they are harder than the ball bearings so it's these that wear.

If it were a crowded (ball)race you might get away with it, however this is a precision taper roller assembly with a preload when assembled, the tracks do wear – mixing old and new is not a good idea.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Technology2005 on Jul 12^th, 2013, 1:11pm

Well the inner race is off after "persuasion" with a lump hammer and big screwdriver. It actually came off relatively easily after an application of "Shock & Unlock" penetrating fluid.

Examining the hub has revealed a wear ridge where the main shaft meets the flange of the hub (right where the inner race outer face sat - in fact the same profile as that face)

I've got a picture of the hub below:

http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r791/Technology2005/Hub_zps72eca3f5.jpg

Is the hub scrap? Or does a wear ridge on this part of the hub cause no problems?

David

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Tompion on Jul 12^th, 2013, 1:20pm

Got to go out now but from I can see I wouldn't use it.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Simmo on Jul 12^th, 2013, 2:08pm

on 07/12/13 at 13:20:13, Tompion wrote:

Got to go out now but from I can see I wouldn't use it.

I agree with Dave. If you look at Snoopy's article highlighted above and enlarge the picture of the hub I think you'll see that the damage is similar.

Have you checked your PM's and Parts wanted as it looks like your salvation may be there?.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Tompion on Jul 12^th, 2013, 2:25pm

Back again ::)
You’d need to clean off the ridge & see what sort of fit the bearing is, anything looser than a close sliding fit chances are it’ll fret leading to the nut coming loose – the high torque on the nut won’t stop that happening. Even if it feels a close fit I don’t suppose it’ll be making contact in many places – you should check it along its length with a micrometer or decent vernier.
The wear on the mating face of the shoulder whilst not affecting the clearance of the assembly could cause problems resulting in early failure or a loose nut.
You could try bearing fit loctite but given the failure rate of these bearings if they’re not right it hardly seems worth the risk.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Andycan on Jul 12^th, 2013, 3:10pm

When my rear bearing collapsed someone on here told me that in most cases if the bearing collapses then it could have damaged the housing so I bought a secondhand good hub and changed the bearing and put that on. I would say that is what you would be better doing.

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Technology2005 on Jul 12^th, 2013, 4:46pm

on 07/12/13 at 14:08:22, Simmo wrote:

I'm resigned to the hub being scrap, had a feeling it might be.

I have indeed sorted a replacement hub and carrier with bearing thanks to Mike so just awaiting it's arrival now so I can put this Scorpio back on the road.

Then I can turn my attention to the longer term patient which has been SORN since end of April. Thanks for all the advice everyone...at least I now know HOW to change a bearing, even if I didn't actually complete the procedure in this case :D

David

Title: Re: Rear Wheel Bearing _ Inner Race stuck on hub
Post by Snoopy on Jul 13^th, 2013, 7:59am

Quote:

Snoopy says
Dave Richards did have that very same problem and it was after he had removed the bearing cap which was eventually hammered off using a cold chisel and lump hammer that the damage was found. I did NOT use the old hub again. and replaced the other side with a new hub. I seem to recall that they are the same as the sierra, but I may be wrong with that one.