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        General >> Problems >> Help Overheating!
        
(Message started by: ro284 on Jul 19^th, 2013, 10:27pm)

Title: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 19^th, 2013, 10:27pm

95, 2-9 estate, Took the car out today, (Still no ABS PLUG) after about 10 miles with air con on, The car started to get hot and rattley, possibly pinking! So stopped and noticed the coolant had gone, but was too hot to take the filler cap off, So waited an hour to let the engine cool down, topped up from a river, then went a few miles and the same thing happened again! A few times, eventually got the car home! When it is freshly topped up and cooled down, there is no rattle or pinking, it is only when low on water, Then it is extremely hot!
After all that i need a plan to find the problem, I feel it may be caused by a blockage, or the pump impellor loose, or an air lock! Stuck Stat! The overflow tube keeps squirting out hot water when i switch off. I guess it could be caused by a head Gasket! Any advice please,
Thanks Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by leewar on Jul 20^th, 2013, 12:52am

I'd check the thermostat. Prone to sticking. Take it out and do the hot water test to see if it works.

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by Matt on Jul 20^th, 2013, 5:52am

Take the thermo stat out the split the cooling system into 3

1. Take hoses off the rad and flush it from top to bottom. If the flow seems restricted them remove rad, lie flat and fill with a hot soapy solution. Leave for an hour then back flush.

2. Flush the engine block.

3. Flush the heater matrix, normally back flushing is best.

Also check the little return on the header tank isnt blocked. I found this on Alans 24v

If your losing that much water but with no sign as to where its going chevk the engine oil and autobox oil. If either is milky its a big task to fix

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 20^th, 2013, 12:27pm

Thanks Matt, Leewar, Well the stat looks like its been there since the car was built, it will just about open at boiling point its the type of stat with an extention on the back, 'valve disk,! which appears to cover a tube indide the manifold, Does it have to be the same as the original or can i fit the more common one? Have back flushed heater, rad and block, and replaced the front hose from filler tank down to bottom rad and pump spout, no blockages that i can find, but heater matrix had lot of crap! looks like the stat, Thanks Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 20^th, 2013, 4:35pm

Well, not good news! i fitted a new stat, reset by disconnecting the battery, cleand plugs etc. took it our for a spin, got about 400 yards, then i could hear the grumbling again! so pulled over, and could see from a distance that the small overflow tube, that there was superheated steam blasting out! So the car seems to be very dangerous now, bit like a bomb! the drivers side rocker box was hotter than the other, tried to cool it down with water but it was incredibly hot! Any ideas anyone please, what could be wrong? anyone heard of this before?
Cheers Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by gozz on Jul 20^th, 2013, 7:09pm

Bob.
Did you run the engine with the filler cap off after you had initially filled it ?.This lets trapped air escape and allows the coolant to enter all parts of the cooling system and heater,thus the level will drop and allows you to top up to the correct level.I had several 12v funeral vehicles,and found this virtually always to be the problem.They are a very hardy cast iron lump,and are difficult to cook,unlike all the others with alloy heads.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 20^th, 2013, 7:37pm

Hi GOZZ, Thanks, Yes i did, and i topped it up by quite an amount, but the problem is still there, i can't drive it far (perhaps 300 metres) before it starts blasting out steam!
My next step was to connect my compression tester to measure all compression readings to see if there may be a clue, such as a crack between cylinders or heads, But GUNSONS gauge wont fit Ford!! How rediculous is that!
Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 23^rd, 2013, 2:55pm

Obviously a strange problem, i hope to do a compression test later, see if i get any clue!
Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by leewar on Jul 23^rd, 2013, 4:00pm

Fitting a genuine thermostat is best, it has a small hole in it which when fitted is located at the top. Sure sounds like an air lock!! There was a post showing a tube hung high up to extract the air hooked up to the bonnet when filling.

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 23^rd, 2013, 4:33pm

Thanks mate, i did drill the new stat, surprised it did not have a hole! i am wondering how it would run i-e without the problems if i ran it with no stat! that may prove something!

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 23^rd, 2013, 10:02pm

Just to update, All compression figures good, The new stat, no good! will test the car tomorow with no stat, Then buy a Ford Stat if it runs ok! Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by Simmo on Jul 24^th, 2013, 9:17am

on 07/23/13 at 16:00:16, leewar wrote:

Lee...... This is the famous Johnnycab method :o :o

Described Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1267895712) ;D

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 24^th, 2013, 2:02pm

Thanks SIMMO, Tried that too, the engine appears to run a bit smoother, less erratic, but with no stat in at all After running for around 20 minutes the water starts spraying steam out of the overflow pipe, or the bleed pipe from the return pipe to tank! Just a reminder that when the car started to break down and smell hot or overheat, all was fine at about 50mph round some country lanes, However When the engine is running now, it seems to stutter and make a groaning noise back into the air filter, only on the front pipe of the 2 from the air filter, i wonder if a cat converter may be blocked! Anyone tell me the symptoms of a blocked cat please? Thanks Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by Tompion on Jul 24^th, 2013, 2:42pm

Lack of power although possibly not as noticeable with a 2 cat setup.
Other model cars that I've heard sound like they're working hard but a bit muffled with a load hissing noise. Get someone to listen to you drive by as it may not be so obvious to you whilst driving.

See here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faults_rattle.htm

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by Andycan on Jul 24^th, 2013, 3:23pm

I am watching this problem and hope we all find the problem as I pick up a 2.9 24v tomorrow which sounds as if it has the same if not very similar problems. That problem might be one of the other things mentioned on this thread so I will do everything that has been done and suggested here.

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by Andycan on Jul 24^th, 2013, 3:24pm

Oh I might add that is it me or are these vehicles all dying in this heat? lol

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by amigafan2003 on Jul 24^th, 2013, 3:31pm

Nope - mine was rock solid - right in the middle of the temp gauge - sat in traffic driving up the prom this afternoon

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 24^th, 2013, 4:54pm

Thanks for that link Tompion. I did notice a lack in power, but not huge, i thought it was misfiring! (Does not tick over easily!) also has a rattle, and there seems to be a slight whistle from near ignition coil area! which i wrongly thought was in intake tube but very faint and difficult to tell what it is, At least i do know that it is not the Stat! Another symptom from today, is it dumped all the water somewhere!! I think from what ive read it may be one of the cats, So the next job is take them off, i dont know if when running the broke cat would be hotter or cooler than the good one! if ive got a good one! Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by Andycan on Jul 24^th, 2013, 7:28pm

Which prom Amigafan?

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by gozz on Jul 24^th, 2013, 10:35pm

Bob.
The 12v has a siamese exhaust,whereby the front pipes are connected before the cat which is on a single pipe,the original cat is a twin 'one behind the other' arrangement as against the 24v ( Cossie) which has a cat in each front pipe.The pattern part replacement for the 12v has only one cat chamber which has the necessary effect on emissions.They are not very expensive either,see good old ebay.As Tompion asks re power loss,if the cat is blocked you would have difficulty making progress with a 12v,however a collapsing cat will make a very disconcerting rattle.Did you take Matt's advice and check the coolant flow through the rad ? It is unusual to have an obstructed rad on a 'modern' car,but not unheard of,dependent on previous owner's care and maintenance ::) Does the beat of the exhaust at the tail pipe sound/feel normal and unobstructed at idle ? does the engine overheat when left idling for a lengthy period ? these things are pointers to finding your problem.

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by Nunnspoet on Jul 25^th, 2013, 9:30am

Last year my 24 valve Estate had been lacking power and the tick-over was poor. Then whilst waiting at traffic lights she really started to stutter very badly. I took her home and on a whim removed the drive belt from the A/C pump. Problem solved ;D. ;D. Smooth tick-over and the engine peformance improved.

A/C pump useless and due to lack of funding the A/C has not been sorted. Fair enoug in Winter but a real pain in hot weather. Never mind.

Mike

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 25^th, 2013, 10:21am

Thanks Gozz, Mike, it seems to be getting worse by the day! only (84k) just whipped the AC belt off, but no difference, Gozz, as you say the cats are one behind the other, but no rattling from them, don't think it is a cat, as for rad flush/flow, Took Mikes advice, i replaced the hose from filler tank to bottom rad, before connecting rear of T hose to pump, i blocked that pipe before fitting (easier to back flush the rad from the top, before connecting this to filler tank. The engine is very rough lumpy, has a whistle, and will stop if thottle not poked! so anti stall not working! Re exhaust flow, got the wife to rev it to keep it running put my hand over the end of exhaust! One very black wet hand, its puffing out crap like oil and water! If i can keep it running it will overheat! (No Stat) Any more advice please guys? would hate to scrap it! Thanks Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by amigafan2003 on Jul 25^th, 2013, 10:46am

Quote:

its puffing out crap like oil and water! If i can keep it running it will overheat!

Get a compression/leak down test done on it - I'd now put my money on a head gasket failure.

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 25^th, 2013, 10:00pm

Thanks amigafan, Yes with all those symptoms i think you are right! i can get a Gasket set for £90, i have done a few v6 MK2 Granada's before, so i would hope to cope with that ok, The question on my mind, is it best to get the heads skimmed? Has anyone done this? not sure about the timing chain tensioner! is it the same as the 2-3? Cheers Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by gozz on Jul 25^th, 2013, 11:18pm

Bob.
If it's steaming from the exhaust it will be a leaking head gasket,an inspection of the spark plugs should point to which pot is leaking,as amigafan says,a compression check could pinpoint the pot as well.It is doubtful that both gaskets have blown,but I would always get the faulty head skimmed in case of warping.The timing chain will not come into the equation as the camshaft is in the block.These engines are the easiest to put right when compared with overhead cam versions.Unlike the Mk2 Granny,these have hydraulic valve lifters,but still retain adjusters on the rockers,if you have horrible rattling tappets,now is the time to replace the lifters because the heads need to come off to remove them.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 27^th, 2013, 1:09pm

Thanks GOZZ, i Thought i would add the compression figures, etc. first of all i took all plugs out as the car will not keep running, when i start it, it revs up to 1000 revs then cuts out! All the plugs were shiny black! some wet and oily looking! The first time i took them out they were all sooty!

The compression figures are =

LEFT BANK== (drivers side) RIGHT BANK==
PISTON 1 ===11-3 BAR. PISTON 1===11-2 BAR
PISTON 2 ===11-3 "" PISTON 2===11-7 ""
PISTON 3 ===11-6 "" PISTON 4===12-0 ""

Any advice on the above gratefully received.
Bob

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by amigafan2003 on Jul 27^th, 2013, 6:51pm

They look ok - but a leak into an oil/water way doesn't always show up as compression reduction.

Plugs are often oily when you remove them as the rocker cover gasket leaks and fills the plug holes up with oil.

Have you had a code reader on it yet?

Title: Re: Help Overheating!
Post by ro284 on Jul 28^th, 2013, 10:28am

(quote)
They look ok - but a leak into an oil/water way doesn't always show up as compression reduction. (quote)

Agreed. Apparently anything between 11- 13 Bar, is acceptable

(quote)
Plugs are often oily when you remove them as the rocker cover gasket leaks and fills the plug holes up with oil. (quote)

No oil in plug holes, not concerned about the outside of the plug, only the colour of the electrodes. which are black! which i take to mean, very rich. (which had it been a 24v could be caused by dirty/failed maf or fuel pressure regulator.

(quote)
Have you had a code reader on it yet? No, never needed one, don't know where to get one or how to use it!
guess i will plod on, checking anything i can, Thanks