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        General >> Problems >> Recently driving
        
(Message started by: georgeodyphotos on Sep 18^th, 2013, 12:03pm)

Title: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Sep 18^th, 2013, 12:03pm

Getting an intermittent problem from the rear end of my 2.3 Ultima estate. I will be driving quite normally when a very loud rapid clonking noise will be heard, sometimes followed by a sound similar to an exhaust dropping down and dragging on the ground. It then disappears but then it is sometimes followed by a low droaning noise. Whatever can it be? There are no visible problems. My garage put it on the ramp and there was nothing to see. ???

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Sep 18^th, 2013, 12:23pm

Check the rear wheel bearings - failure is not always obvious but needs to be checked asap :o - common failure item on these cars.
Rapid clonking could also be a failing CV joint - is it more noticeable when going round a corner ???

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Jonnycab on Sep 19^th, 2013, 12:28am

A dodgy wheel bearing will make an intermittent moaning noise to start with, which will very quickly get worse the hotter it gets, until it reaches a horrible sqealing/grinding sound. If the noise gets to this point then the whole hub will have to be replaced as the sqealing/grinding is the broken bearing grinding away at the hub.

A couple of ways to easily check it is a bearing......1) check the wheel centres after a run, as a bad bearing will really heat up the centre of the wheel (alot more than normal brake usage would)......2)when it starts making the noise, just pull up the handbrake a tad. If the noise goes away, then it is a bearing, as pulling up the handbrake will centralise the wheel & take the strain off the bearing.

If the wheel centre isn't getting hot & the noise doesn't go when pulling up the handbrake, then it could well be a CV joint. Although, from experience, CV joints tend to make a loud clicking noise rather than a clonking noise & I've never heard one moaning. Check the rubber gaiters on the CV joints, if one is split then it's a sure sign that water/dirt has got in has caused the CV joint to fail....P.S... they usually split at the driveshaft end where the metal securing ring is.

Hope this helps :)

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by freddieboy on Sep 19^th, 2013, 8:52am

Yep, I had the same thing a couple of years ago. At the time the garage I used got hold of a second hand replacement, and it has been no problem ever since. Good luck, Fred

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Sep 26^th, 2013, 3:38pm

Thanks fellas. I will take all your comments on board. The noise now, when it happens ( and it's getting more frequent ) is definitely a grinding noise. I will try the handbrake idea and feeling the wheel centre later this afternoon.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Oct 9^th, 2013, 1:13pm

Hi Guys. Now had new wheel bearing fitted. The hub HAD worn but my mechanic ran some lines of weld around the hub and ground them down until a tight fit was achieved.

All ok now but a new problem has occured. Only happens first thing in the morning but when trying to start first time, the engine cranks but doesn't fire. After several attempts it will fire but if I touch the throttle it stops. It's a bit like the old days when we had a choke and it wasn't engaged. Once it does start, if I let it tick over for a bit, I can then blip the throttle and all is well then for the rest of the day. Any ideas please? ???

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Oct 23^rd, 2013, 3:03pm

Completely packed up now. AA man says wiring loom to injectors broken. Hoping autoelectrician can have a look soon. :-/

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by PJDavis on Oct 23^rd, 2013, 6:13pm

I suspect the infamous injector loom. I'm not sure whether you can still get them new, I think from Germany, but a lot, lot, of money. Best bet is to get a reasonable one and do a very patient 'patch-up' job. Or take your broken one and copy it, an even longer job! Sorry to hear your poor news.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 24^th, 2013, 12:24pm

Hi,

Yes, I agree about injector loom - mine went a similar way back in 2006 - starting with occasional misfire which gradually got worse, then one day the no start/no idle issue you describe.

I ended up making a new loom using silicone wire and Gremfix sleeving, there was a thread and some photos on the forum somewhere. I replaced the whole thing though to be honest it was only the wiring at the top of the engine (the part which feeds the injectors, coils, EGR valve etc.) that was crumbling - like I say, that was 7 years ago and the average car is probably in much worse condition now, maybe your loom is crumbling in more places.

As a temporary fix, you could try wrapping all the wiring you can get to in insulating tape and see if that helps, and go from there.

I've no idea whether Ford still supply the looms, making one yourself isn't too difficult, more time consuming really - you just need to be able to solder and make a note of everything as it is before you start.

Hope this helps.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Simmo on Oct 24^th, 2013, 2:03pm

You might findThis article (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1358685207)helpful. Bob has since done a much more comprehensive job so he may will be able to offer more words of wisdom. :)

Another firm which may help is Here (http://www.heatshrink-online.co.uk/). You may be able to cut the wire,feed the tubing over it and then solder the joint.

Wire is available from This firm (http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/home/homepage.php).

The major problem is keeping the old connectors. The idea is to cut close to the unit and solder the new wire on as the connectors are no longer available and the ones shown in the catalogues are NOT compatible. Believe me this has been explored fully ::)

This old post (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1353167864;start=6#6) may help as well. :)

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Mike H on Oct 25^th, 2013, 11:35am

These wires get roasted by the cylinder head until the plastic insulation goes baked hard and drops off. Check also the wiring to the ignition coils, under the centre plastic cover, these are usually the first to go so if your injector wires are shot these deffo will be! Unless been fixed earlier (?)

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Tompion on Oct 26^th, 2013, 2:54pm

on 10/24/13 at 14:03:44, Simmo wrote:

Mike,

I know you looked into this with vehicle-wiring-products & they couldn’t find a match for the injector plugs which is strange as they list Junior-Timer-housings.

I did a search & that appears to be the correct plug group as it comes up when you search for Bosch EV1 (an injector type).

Only way to be sure was to buy one so I ordered this from BrandsHatchPerformance on ebay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121185843248

Other places do them pre assembled with wire tails.

It came today & does fit the coils, injectors, IAC etc.

On the 2.3, 3 of the injector plugs are moulded into the plastic box so it would need modifying or just changing the crimp connections.

Dave

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Oct 26^th, 2013, 3:51pm

Those connectors also fit the sensors on the now-rather-vintage Bosch K-Jetronic system ;)

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Mike H on Oct 26^th, 2013, 4:35pm

What I did was reuse the original plugs, cut the wires short (which were just bare strands), scrape all the strands all around with a penknife blade until shiny, dip into liquid flux, solder tin, and solder new wires on. Then sleeved with heatshrink sleeving, and then again overall with high temperature sleeving (glassfibre based or similar).

HTH

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by TiberiuS on Oct 26^th, 2013, 6:12pm

Hi guys,

Not to get too deep into this, but be careful not to solder the new wires right close to the connector, this can create a stress point which can break if it is flexed around too much - especially if the original wire that you connect to is already corroded. I'm a qualified electronic engineer and know this can happen - there are actually standards which prohibit soldering things like power connections inside electronics systems because of this.

If you absolutely need to reuse the old connectors, try to leave at least an inch and preferably 2 inches of original wire and then cover up to the connector shell with adhesive lined heatshrink when the new wire is soldered on. Also, if the old wire is corroded near to the connector, throw it away and use one in better condition.

I'm not saying it's the wrong way to do it (it's how I did mine, you don't have much choice unless you can get new connectors), just that you need to be careful not to create stress points which break when the wires are flexed and cause more problems.

About those connectors, I'm sure GM used that type at some point? Also, my XJ uses quite a few of them and in some places they connect to Delphi and Lucas branded components - might be a long shot, but maybe they're still listed in one of those companies' catalogues still?

Bruce.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Oct 29^th, 2013, 4:30pm

Thanks guys. Had auto electrician on the case. He carefully stripped out the wires feeding the injectors and the coils and replaced with new wiring, crimping the connectors rather than soldering. All looks very neat but the car still won't start. He has plugged in his computer and that doesn't show any error codes, so he says all should be well.
The engine turns over and attempts to fire once and then there's nothing. Just reeks of fuel. Getting desperate now. Have persuaded him to come back tomorrow and have another go at it. :-/ :'(

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Oct 29^th, 2013, 4:40pm

Don't know what your electrician is costing you but it might just be worth buying a replacement fuel cut off loom - they are still available for about £160+VAT from FordPartsUK

http://www.fordpartsuk.com/shop/c/scorpio_electrical_281/

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Mike H on Nov 2^nd, 2013, 2:51pm

Injectors working now but no sparks so too rich? As per choke comparison, won't go once flooded

(?)

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by lesterlad aka Rodders on Nov 2^nd, 2013, 10:14pm

on 10/29/13 at 16:30:58, georgeodyphotos wrote:

The engine turns over and attempts to fire once and then there's nothing. Just reeks of fuel.

Had exactly the same with my 2.3 nearly 2yrs ago.
New loom sorted it.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Nov 5^th, 2013, 2:54pm

In desperation called out AA again who diagnosed cam shaft sensor. Hope he is right as am picking up one today.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by brds on Nov 5^th, 2013, 5:02pm

I hope you're right but I'd be more suspicious of the wiring to the sensor than the sensor itself. I recently rewired most of my engine loom and the insulation to the sensor and other wiring in that area was totally perished.
Bob

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Tompion on Nov 5^th, 2013, 5:58pm

on 11/05/13 at 14:54:14, georgeodyphotos wrote:

In desperation called out AA again who diagnosed cam shaft sensor. Hope he is right as am picking up one today.

As a test you could try disconnecting it, my 2.3 will drive perfectly well without the cam sensor connected.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Nov 7^th, 2013, 10:29am

Well have fitted new camshaft sensor as recommended by AA man. Trouble is that the plug that connects to the sensor has crumbled to pieces as it was so brittle. Have pushed in the bare terminals and the car did start and run for about two seconds. Are these plugs available to buy or does anyone have one please?

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Tompion on Nov 7^th, 2013, 7:14pm

They're available, see my post on the previous page.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Nov 9^th, 2013, 5:30pm

Auto electrician repaired connectors but Camshaft sensor didn't work. Now advised that I need an ignition amplifier. Anyone know anything about these please?

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by brds on Nov 9^th, 2013, 6:05pm

I've never heard of an ignition amplifier. If the connector had crumbled I'd suggest that before spending any more money on Auto electricians, you thoroughly check the cam sensor wiring pair for short-circuit or a short-circuit to something else in the loom. That area is awkward to get at and the wiring is subject to a lot of heat.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Nov 9^th, 2013, 7:32pm

Ignition amplifier - possibly means a coil pack ???

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Nov 12^th, 2013, 6:17pm

The autoelectrician first of all made up a connector to the camshaft sensor to no avail and then connected the car to his computer and he found this part called an ignition amplifier (Motorcraft PBT GF30) It is situated just beside the header tank for the radiator. He said the spark was reaching it but not leaving it.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Tompion on Nov 12^th, 2013, 6:55pm

Sounds like the EDIS (Electronic Distributorless Ignition System).
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccmonitor.htm

Sparks don’t pass through it.
Others seem to have had problems with the loom to/from it rather than a faulty unit.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Nov 13^th, 2013, 1:00pm

I didn't mean the actual spark but apparently the signal is reaching the part but not leaving it. I am only going by what the A E told me. I wish I lived near one of you guys who seem to be very knowlegable on these cars. As I said, the part is attached to the inner wing by the header tank and is a Motorcraft part PBT GF30. He called it (I think it came up on his computer) an ignition amplifier. It is a little box with two screw holes and three banks of pins which have further codes: EDIS4 followed by 91AB-12K072-AA Does this mean anything ?

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Tompion on Nov 13^th, 2013, 2:06pm

Yes that's the EDIS, I think ignition amplifier is an old term for it & for all I know may be what it's called on other makes. It looks as though they're very expensive so probably best to try & get a second hand one in the parts wanted section.
When he said the power wasn't leaving it was he testing at the module or just reading from OBD, if from OBD it could still be faulty wiring.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by leewar on Nov 13^th, 2013, 11:15pm

I may have a spare EDIS in my collection. Will look for you, Cheers Lee

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Nov 14^th, 2013, 1:06pm

Thanks Tompion and leewar. That would be very helpful Guys.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Nov 14^th, 2013, 2:08pm

Hi leewar. How much do you want for the EDIS please?

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Nov 23^rd, 2013, 2:16pm

Please, has anyone got one of these EDIS's ? Getting desperate now. Car hasn't run for weeks. URGENT........

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Matt on Nov 23^rd, 2013, 3:43pm

Any edis 4 will work,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC0.A0.XEdis+4&_nkw=Edis+4&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Nov 23^rd, 2013, 3:55pm

on 11/23/13 at 14:16:32, georgeodyphotos wrote:

Please, has anyone got one of these EDIS's ? Getting desperate now. Car hasn't run for weeks. URGENT........

Yep, just dug one out from the spares box...in 'The shed'

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Nov 23^rd, 2013, 3:55pm

Thanks Matt. Will try one of these. Hope it does the trick.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Nov 24^th, 2013, 10:06am

Thanks Scorpio_Mike. How much are you asking please?

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Nov 24^th, 2013, 1:44pm

on 11/24/13 at 10:06:12, georgeodyphotos wrote:

Thanks Scorpio_Mike. How much are you asking please?

I sent you a PM ;)

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by gozz on Nov 24^th, 2013, 4:41pm

on 11/23/13 at 15:55:02, Scorpio_Mike wrote:

Yep, just dug one out from the spares box...in 'The shed'

Simmo must be out of the country :o or was he assisting in 'The Shed' and disappeared ;D

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Simmo on Nov 24^th, 2013, 4:45pm

on 11/24/13 at 16:41:05, gozz wrote:

Simmo must be out of the country :o or was he assisting in 'The Shed' and disappeared ;D

Check out This thread (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin4;action=display;num=1380998154) !. ;D

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by gozz on Nov 24^th, 2013, 5:01pm

Ah 8) thank goodness for that,we old geezers do have to look out for each other ;D

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Dec 2^nd, 2013, 1:38pm

Well, good news guys. The EDIS finally did the trick . After many attempts at starting with it in place, the engine finally started to run longer than a second and seems to be running normally now. After a month off the road, two visits from the AA, a new camshaft sensor and two sessions with the auto-electrician, we finally cracked it. Thanks for all your helpful advice. Best wishes, George.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Glyn on Dec 2^nd, 2013, 2:17pm

Great news-well done!

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Jan 23^rd, 2014, 10:35am

Hi guys. Back where we started now. Parked up on a neighbour's drive before Christmas due to car being 'Sorned'. Was running perfectly when I left it but refuses to start now. Have contacted the auto electrician who seems to be busy 'for the foreseeable future' so I guess he doesn't want to know. Is there anyone in the Somerset area who might look at it for a fee? Very fed up now. -/

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by Tompion on Jan 23^rd, 2014, 12:39pm

Are the drain holes clear:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/drainholes.htm

With it standing for a long time there's more chance of leaves accumulating at this time of year.
Water can build up & get inside the car onto the PCM (the other end of the wiring to the EDIS you replaced) especially if the car happens to be on an uphill slope with all this rain.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Feb 12^th, 2014, 11:28pm

Thanks Tompion. A guy managed to get it running again but more wires are found to be bare and in danger of shorting out. I am looking for a top loom now if anyone has one. 5stud offered one weeks ago but I don't seem to be able to get an answer from him now. Regards, George

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Mar 16^th, 2014, 1:39am

New fuel cut off loom fitted, well, used one
anyway and car running beautifully now.

Title: Re: Recently driving
Post by georgeodyphotos on Mar 26^th, 2014, 11:07am

In the end I found a really good guy who is not a rip off merchant and he came and fitted a replacement fuel cut off loom sourced on this site. Now car going perfectly. 8)