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Title: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Feb 27th, 2014, 1:58pm Can anyone please help with ideas to what our problem is with a 1988 Granada 2.9 scorpio , We have bought the car and its mint condition and beautiful engine etc However when driving at low speed and some times at higher speeds it goes as if its starved of fuel for few seconds or so then judders but then picks back up on own , Or if when it does this i put foot down more it clears and goes back to normal but it keeps happening all the time . Even when start off it does it and then starts to judder but soon as i stick my foot down and give it more it goes but then comes back just as quick if i slow up etc . Ive Changed throttle position sensor plus new fuel filter and fuel pressure regulator and still the same Any idea please ? |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Andycan on Feb 27th, 2014, 2:08pm Have you checked the plug leads? you could be getting a intermittant short. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Feb 27th, 2014, 2:21pm would it be a lead you think ? because when it happens if i do nothing it judders bad , but if i put foot down and give it more it goes |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Andycan on Feb 27th, 2014, 3:39pm I had a similar problem with my 2.9 24v and it turned out it was shorting from a couple of leads to the inlet manifold it only takes a few minutes to check in the dark you should see the sparks if that is it |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Feb 27th, 2014, 4:03pm ok will check that tonight , did your seem like it was restricted of fuel for few seconds and then judder like hell then |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Andycan on Feb 27th, 2014, 4:29pm It would go and then start spluttering and loose power so I put my foot down and it would then clear itself after a few seconds so it sounds similar |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Feb 27th, 2014, 5:12pm Ok i will check tonight when dark but with this it only lose power for seconds if starved of fuel but it will also start to judder like hell as if prop or something gone on back , but soon as i put foot down it clears instantly |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Feb 27th, 2014, 9:52pm Checked tonight in dark and can see sparks from all 3 leads on drivers side so will get new leads and then see how it goes so thanks for that info Andycan |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Feb 28th, 2014, 3:22pm All new leads etc fitted and still the same , anymore ideas ?? |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Andycan on Feb 28th, 2014, 4:58pm Well you sorted 1 problem that might have had a little effect on your problem lol. I am not familiar with your engine and only had my BOB engined scorpio for a short while and think you need to track down some of the experts on here like tompion. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Andycan on Feb 28th, 2014, 7:24pm Thinking about it if it only happens when in gear is it all the gears or just 1? as you say it could be the prop or severalother things |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Feb 28th, 2014, 8:06pm its automatic |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Tompion on Mar 1st, 2014, 8:16pm Hi I’m afraid I can’t be much help as I have no direct experience of the V engines. What I know of them is only from reading this site & peoples experiences of the Scorpio. Yours being an ’88 Granada makes it even less likely I can help. I’d suggest unplugging any engine sensors & ignition connectors a few times in case there are any poor connections. If the Granada has the same 2 large block wiring connectors low down on the drivers side wing try separating them (check no dirt drops in particularly on the seals before bolting them together again). Swap the petrol pump relay with one of the others. Check the cut off button (presumably in the boot) is properly depressed. Dave |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 1st, 2014, 10:24pm ok thanks i will look at what you say , its proper puzzled me so far |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 2nd, 2014, 4:10pm Tried looking and unplugging all conections i can find then plugging them back plus took dash all out to get at fuel relays etc under dash top and swapped them around and so on but still same , got new coil and fuel pump on order so will try them once they arrive |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by a900one on Mar 3rd, 2014, 1:49pm Have you changed the plugs. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 4th, 2014, 11:11am Yes changed plugs and the coil for new but still same |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 6th, 2014, 5:30pm ohh well even changed fuel pump now and still the same |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Andycan on Mar 6th, 2014, 7:25pm Could there be some water in the fuel tank? Was thinking it could pick it or dirt up and clog the injectors maybe then you put your foot down to clear it or something like that? or maybe a dodgy sparkplug? Does your car have a distributor cap? maybe condensation in it? or a bad connection? only other thing I can think of is a sensor somewhere playing up. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 8th, 2014, 12:41am Hi Andycan its now had plugs, leads and coil plus new dizzy cap etc and ive changed throttle position sensor , fuel pressure regulator , egr valve thing , fuel filter and fuel pump . Ive checked all pipes for leaks and cleaned all fuses and even swapped or changed relays including taking hole dash out to get at fuel relays etc. Ive also stripped all throttle body and pipes and the air meters and cleaned everything fully then put it back and the sodding thing is still the same . I am thinking possible injector or something blocked but then its not all time so when i put foot down its normal and then when let off throttle and cruise its back so if it was a injector blocked i cant understand how it go normal with more throttle it really is a puzzle and im running out of things to try |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Andycan on Mar 8th, 2014, 8:31am If itwas a injector then if it was worn or blocked it could work better when you put your foot down as there would be more fuel and pressure possibly clearing the blockage untill you slow down again. Have you tried injector cleaner in the fuel tank? it might help if it is a injector that needs cleaning. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Dave2302 on Mar 8th, 2014, 9:35am I'd be looking at the screened lead from distributor........... This is definitely a misfire ;) The reason it seems better when you put throttle down is that the torque converter un locks, when it is locked in light throttle / cruise mode you feel the misfire a lot more through the car, once it un locks the drive is hydraulic and therefore damps the vibration from the misfire. As you have proved, shotgun approach of simply firing bits at it is very costly, time consuming and rarely gets to the problem ;) I doubt it has anything to do with the fuelling. Get a proper scan done, (not cheap OBD reader), you'll have to clear out all the codes you have put in it by un plugging stuff, then drive it again and see what that says. Correct diagnosis is the only way, otherwise you'll spend a fortune and get frustrated. My money is on the screened lead from dizzy, causing an intermittant misfire on 2 cylinders HTH Dave ;) ;) ;) |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by gozz on Mar 8th, 2014, 10:52am I had several 12valve hearses and limos in my fleet,some of them had degraded screened cables causing crossed messaging between the distributor and the ECU,it is a very common fault which I became used to repairing almost as a matter of course ::)The cable consists of three small signal wires surrounded by a copper sheath rather like a coax,the insulation breaks down and the wires short together.The cable goes with the rest of the loom across the front of the car,the worst bit is in the engine bay,gradually improving as it goes across the front.There is a more than a fair chance that Dave is putting his money on the right horse 8) GOZZ. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 8th, 2014, 12:40pm ok you say screened lead from dizzy and i see a lead thats plugged into dizzy with about 6 wires in it so would that be it ? Also where is the obd ports on these so i can maybe have a code reader plugged in |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Simmo on Mar 8th, 2014, 3:50pm If you go to This Page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/easyguide.htm) you will see the unit plugged in. I assume it is the same location on yours. Open the coin pocket and look up inside to find a flap which pulls down to reveal the socket. :) This page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/star.htm) may also help. :) |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by gozz on Mar 8th, 2014, 8:54pm vinny,don't forget that the 12valve is not OBD 2 compliant and needs an EEC IV code reader. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Mike H on Mar 9th, 2014, 1:24pm Do 12V's have a MAF? If so try driving it with MAF disconnected. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Snoopy on Mar 10th, 2014, 9:18am The 12v does NOT have a MAF..... |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 10th, 2014, 11:13pm Thanks for help Simmo but this dont have a OBD 2 its a 1988 |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 10th, 2014, 11:15pm Thanks for help any idea where i might get 1 ? is there anywhere online that sells them ? on 03/08/14 at 20:54:24, gozz wrote:
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Simmo on Mar 11th, 2014, 10:37am A quick Google brought up This (http://thoms1.net/Ford/Reference/FCRReading.html) and there is a link to a Gunsons product. It also mentions the star reader which is referred to in the second link in my reply at 24. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Dave2302 on Mar 12th, 2014, 10:46am on 03/10/14 at 23:13:39, vinny wrote:
If it's a 1988 then it's not a Scorpio, it is a Granada Scorpio, which is a different engine management wise and the Granada forum would be better placed for advise. Cheers Dave |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Tompion on Mar 12th, 2014, 12:20pm As mentioned earlier I have no direct experience of the V’s or Granada’s so just commenting on what’s been written. The screened cables are known to give similar issues on the Scorpio but whether an ’88 Granada uses them I don’t know. Looking through some documentation it’s not clear if yours has the 16 pin diagnostic connector but if it does try looking below the steering column or in the trim of passenger footwell. Even if it has the 16 pin connector it’ll probably still have the 3 or 5 pin connector located somewhere similar to the Mondeo location in Simmo’s link. It appears Ford engine management changed around ’88 to include KAM (keep alive memory) so it’s possible yours will only have live codes & not have retained codes from disconnecting sensors. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by gozz on Mar 13th, 2014, 7:40pm on 03/10/14 at 23:15:06, vinny wrote:
Vinny,did you get an EEC 1V code reader ? I have just found one in my garage cupboard,the Gunson flashing LED type complete with instructions,do you need it ? I ran some stretched Granada 3s years ago,the three pin diagnostic socket was I think near the battery. Bear in mind that not all wiring faults will produce a code ! GOZZ. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 13th, 2014, 9:51pm Hi Gozz where about are you and how much you want for it mate ? I think when i looked at mine its like a 5 hold plug but only 3 pins to plug in it |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by gozz on Mar 13th, 2014, 11:45pm If you are in the UK I can post it to you ,put £15 on the site funds and PM me your address. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 14th, 2014, 3:23pm ok so i just make a donation to the site for £15 and message you my address is it GOZZ ? will this fit my granada |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by gozz on Mar 14th, 2014, 4:07pm Yes that's right Vinny,I originally bought this for my old fleet of Granada 3 funeral vehicles which were EEC 1V ECU without the sixteen pin socket that was later fitted in all the 95 on Scorpios irrespective of the ECU type.Where the Scorpio,ie 12 valve and early diesel used EEC 1V the 16 pin socket used less contacts,but had to be connected to an early type of reader. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 14th, 2014, 4:58pm ok great how do i private message you |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 14th, 2014, 5:03pm Ive just paid Gozz so i just need to get my address details to you now |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by gozz on Mar 14th, 2014, 7:09pm Just click on gozz and 'send this member a private message'. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 14th, 2014, 7:58pm Ok thanks all done , Is there a way to get notifications if a message has been posted on this site or do I need to just keep checking back every now and then |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by gozz on Mar 14th, 2014, 9:26pm There may be a system of notification,one of the 'Elder Statesmen' vis Snoopy or Simmo would know,when they see this they may respond,I just keep checking occasionally. I've got your address,it's packed up,I will post it in the morning. GOZZ. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Tompion on Mar 14th, 2014, 9:43pm There was a system but it doesn’t appear to work now. If you want to try go to the inbox at the top right of the messages click on preferences, you’ll see notify by email yes/no. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by Glyn on Mar 14th, 2014, 11:04pm If you look at the top of the page it will tell you " you have XX messages" |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 18th, 2014, 1:44pm Thanks Gozz ive had the reader all ok and will try get a look at the car tomorrow with it and see if it does come up with anything |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 19th, 2014, 2:54pm Well I'm now more stumped than ever because I've now got a code reader thanks to Gozz but I've tried test and its coming up with nothing , I've even done a wiggly test and nothing plus someone said its air flow meters but I've also ruled them out because no codes come up however if I unplug a air meter or anything then it shows a code saying problem with them so I really don't know now what else I can do |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by vinny on Mar 27th, 2014, 12:26pm Problem now sorted , I bought air flow meters but problem was still there so a mate then got hold of injection system with injectors off a car Scrap car that was known to be working perfect so i changed that and injectors and all is spot on and driving great. |
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Title: Re: Scorpio judders / jerking Post by PJDavis on Mar 28th, 2014, 12:05am So, Injectors was the problem? Was it all the injectors or the rail or a single injector? |
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