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        General >> Problems >> Handbrake Cable / Caliper
        
(Message started by: Tenfut on Feb 12^th, 2019, 7:23pm)

Title: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 12^th, 2019, 7:23pm

Can anyone advise how to remove the handbrake cable from the caliper. Not the end where it hooks on, I have done that it is the part that goes through the caliper. Is it a push fit or screw fit and what is the best method of removal. Need to get this sorted as MOT looms :-[

Cheers

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 12^th, 2019, 8:27pm

Forgot to ask, where on / under the car is the handbrake adjusting nut? I can find information on how to do it but not where on the car it lives for instance level with back seats or nearer the front.

Thanks again

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Feb 12^th, 2019, 8:51pm

Adjusting nut is towards the rear of the transmission tunnel under the rear seats as far as I can remember.

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Simmo on Feb 12^th, 2019, 9:12pm

I take it you've found This page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/adjhandbrake.htm) I agree with Mike it's near the rear BUT it is hidden under the heat shield. You need to follow the cable protectors where they run through the chassis members. They are very stiff and secured in place by clips. It may be that if you release those you may get enough slack to release the cable from the calliper. My recollection is that the cable is simply a push fit into the calliper housing. This (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/brake/HandbrakeCable.pdf) would seem to confirm that view. ;)

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Feb 12^th, 2019, 9:13pm

on 02/12/19 at 19:23:21, Tenfut wrote:

Again - from memory - fairly sure the cable is just a push fit into the caliper - it is held in place by the tension of the inner cable.

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 12^th, 2019, 9:54pm

Thank you gentlemen

I have unhooked the inner cable from the caliper without adjusting it (extremely difficult but managed in the end) I suppose I will need to adjust the cable to hook it back on the replacement caliper .My immediate problem is I cant budge the outer cable where it goes through the caliper. I suppose it could be rusted in so I have put copious amounts of WD40 in the area and tomorrow I will try working it back and forward and hope it releases.

Who would own a Scorpio?

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Simmo on Feb 13^th, 2019, 7:05am

Tony. If you look at the second link in my post you will see that the outer sheath is clipped where it passes through the 'frame'. Try releasing it to give you movement.

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 13^th, 2019, 9:09am

Success. It was just rusted in so 10 minutes back and forward, more WD40 and out it came. Collecting 2 new calipers this afternoon so hope to do the remainder of the job tomorrow.

Do I just bleed the 2 rear calipers or do I need to do all 4.

Thanks for all advice

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by a900one on Feb 13^th, 2019, 9:25am

You would only need to do the back ones. If the brake fluid has not been changed for a while, change it, and do all four in the process. I have a tester to check it.
Gerald.

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tompion on Feb 13^th, 2019, 11:23am

You should be able to get the cable on without moving the adjuster as you'll probably find the levers on the new calipers much easier to move.
Of course it may need adjusting in the end but the plastic adjuster nuts are best left alone if possible.

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Simmo on Feb 13^th, 2019, 12:04pm

on 02/13/19 at 11:23:04, Tompion wrote:

Absolutely :)

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 13^th, 2019, 4:34pm

Thanks Dave, fingers crossed your right. (You usually are) :D :D

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 15^th, 2019, 2:35pm

Job done. Absolute nightmare fixing on the handbrake cable. Much swearing and blistered fingers.

Problem I have now is the handbrake doesn't hold the car sufficiently.

I pulled the handbrake up as high as possible, put the car in gear and was able to creep forward. Is this normal with new pads and calipers?

Should it improve with driving a 100 miles or so?

Any advice appreciated

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Feb 15^th, 2019, 3:19pm

Try operating the handbrake at least 10-15 times - it should adjust itself.

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 15^th, 2019, 3:24pm

Thanks Mike I will try that tomorrow.

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tompion on Feb 15^th, 2019, 5:30pm

If the cable is stiff the calliper levers may not return fully.
If no improvement after trying as Mike said then try pushing the levers back after each on/off of the handbake.

I used to do that every time before an MOT until I changed the cable - a bit tedious to change.

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Simmo on Feb 15^th, 2019, 6:38pm

You need to know that these calliper's work on a threaded system. As the pads wear the piston rotates slightly to take up the wear. That is why they have to be wound back with the correct tool rather than just pushing them back as with the fronts. As Dave says if the levers are not moving freely it will thus affect the adjustment.. I'd say you need to release the heavy protective sleeving as I mentioned previously as it does make an immense difference to the free play on the cable.
You may also find that pressing on the brake pedal a number of times may be enough to 'rotate' the piston in order to take up the slack.

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 15^th, 2019, 7:45pm

Thanks Dave & Simmo.

I did remove the heavy sleeving from the sub frame on both sides when struggling to re-attach the cable to the calipers.

However --- I don't remember clipping it back. (Dope) would this have any effect on the handbrake operation?

Calipers are both new so I would expect them to work correctly.

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Simmo on Feb 15^th, 2019, 8:47pm

Possibly. As the cable can clearly move more ie; has more slack?

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 16^th, 2019, 12:51pm

Checked the cable and I had replaced one side into the sub frame retaining clip but not the other. Gave the handbrake 30 or so pull ups but no signs of improvement the car will still creep forward with the handbrake on. I suppose the cable needs replacing. Not something I can do so does anyone know how long it would take a garage (not FMD) to do. Just want a rough idea before I bite the bullet.

TIA

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tompion on Feb 16^th, 2019, 2:27pm

Is the lever still coming up too high, even if the cable is stiff you should still be able to get the handbrake to only come up a few clicks if you manually push the caliper levers back after each time you lift and release the handbrake.

I take it you made sure the lug on the back of the pad located properly in the piston on each side.
The original pistons have quite a generous lead in to the slots to help guide the lug into the slot.
On one of my calipers the aftermarket piston only has 2 slots not 4 and no lead in - I have to be very careful to locate the pad.

When I first changed the pads you could see the previous person hadn't located the lug & the pad was very unevenly worn & bent because the lug had stayed out of the slot.

Dave

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 16^th, 2019, 2:45pm

Dave, thanks for your input, however I am not quite understanding your first paragraph. The lever comes right up to the armrest I think it was 10 clicks. I can't push the car with the handbrake on as it does have a little grip put put the car in gear and drive forward it will move. I am confident the lugs are located correctly but will check again. As I said earlier the calipers are brand new and have 4 locating slots sort of upside down heart shaped so easy to guide in.

If it does require a new cable have you any idea on how long it would take a garage to complete.

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tompion on Feb 16^th, 2019, 3:06pm

When you release the handbrake lever the springs on your new calipers should return the levers that the cable hooks onto to their stops. If the cable is a bit stiff they may not return all the way which may mean the pistons don't ratchet forward. I'm suggesting you manually push the levers on the caliper back to their stops (effectively pulling the inner wire out of the handbrake cable) to ensure the pistons are being automatically adjusted for pad/disc wear.

Dave

It was a bid of a fiddle to change the cable laying on my back but with a ramp you can stand under it shouldn't take too long. The heat shields have to come off & a bit fiddly reaching around the propshaft but probably much easier if you're standing :)

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 16^th, 2019, 3:14pm

Understood now

Thanks

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by a900one on Feb 16^th, 2019, 6:56pm

Have you used new pads or the old ones, if new, they need to wear to the shape of the disc, so the car would creep. If you have used the old ones, are they in the same place they came out from.

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 17^th, 2019, 9:51am

New ones Mintex 1287.

Another question: I have read all the threads on bleeding the brakes and there seems to be differing opinions on whether to have the engine running or not.

Any further advice much appreciated

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tompion on Feb 17^th, 2019, 10:37am

I've never had the engine running, I use a Gunson eezibleed kit.

Dave

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Simmo on Feb 17^th, 2019, 10:38am

No need for the engine to run. The only advice I've particularly noted on here is the need to keep the bleed jar ABOVE the nipple. :)

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 18^th, 2019, 11:11am

Followed the advice of Dave and checked the caliper lever with the handbrake in the off position and it was back to its stop so no further movement. With the handbrake in the on position (almost touching the centre armrest) I can get a little more movement with the caliper lever ie more on if that makes sense. So my guess is the cable is stretched or maybe just needs adjusting. The footbrake works fine.

Any more ideas as MOT on the horizon

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Simmo on Feb 18^th, 2019, 11:29am

Most aspect seems to have been covered here BUT I can only refer you my post, number 3, last week and the first link. The advice there is quite specific in relation to the handbrake cable. It does however explain what to do if a new cable is fitted. I can only advise that you make absolutely certain that the callipers and pads are fitted and working correctly before you resort to that method of adjustment. Are both callipers working in the same way or could there be an uneven pull on the cable? Is the outer sheath anchored back in position? Any of these issues might affect the length of the cable.
:)

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tompion on Feb 18^th, 2019, 1:48pm

With both levers on the calipers against their stops & the handbrake off there should be minimal slack in the cable (which is what you end up with following the correct procedure).

If you pull on the cable one side see how much slack you have between the hook on the cable & the lever BUT note it's the same cable going round an equaliser yoke - it links both calipers - so pull hard enough on the cable hook to move the lever on the other caliper & gently release. Check the other caliper has gone back to it's stop or push it back to the stop, now go back to the first caliper & see how much slack in the cable.

I usually do this from underneath with the car on wheel ramps, if you pull down on one of the cables where it emerges from the outer you can see the levers move and feel around to check they've returned & check the amount of slack.

The manual says the levers should just be off the stops - so under slight tension, but the above works fine on mine.

Dave

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 18^th, 2019, 3:46pm

Thanks again Dave & Simmo

Had to give up for today as it has started raining and lying on wet concrete coupled with 71.5 years on the clock is not the best mix. :)

I have just been out in the car and wound it up to about 80 MPH and did a few "emergency stops" and the brakes are working as they should.

I counted the clicks on the handbrake lever and got 12 yet the car will still creep forward with only slight acceleration.

I have checked that the pads are fitted correctly and would assume the calipers are OK as they are new and the footbrake does its job.

I will try your last suggestion tomorrow if hopefully it is not raining .

I have only driven about 25 miles since changing the pads and calipers, do you think doing many more will help?

Cheers

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tompion on Feb 18^th, 2019, 4:15pm

If the handbrake lever comes up 12 clicks it may be reaching it's limit. It can only be either too much slack in the cable so the auto adjust doesn't get chance to work or for some reason the auto adjust isn't working.

For what it's worth mine comes up 4 clicks - 6 clicks if I pull way too hard.

I've never found a significant difference with new pads but 12 clicks means something other than that is wrong.

Dave

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Simmo on Feb 18^th, 2019, 4:23pm

My experience is in line with Dave's. :)

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 27^th, 2019, 4:24pm

New handbrake cable fitted today by local garage.

I sourced the cable @ £19.61 and garage charged me £60.00 for fitting.

Lever now coming up 4 clicks.

Happy days

Tony ;D ;D

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Simmo on Feb 27^th, 2019, 7:05pm

Thanks for letting us know. Did they explain what the issue was??

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Feb 27^th, 2019, 7:28pm

I was in a big hurry when I collected the car so didn't get a chance to ask. I am going back tomorrow to pay him so I will ask him then.

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Tenfut on Mar 2^nd, 2019, 5:44pm

The cable had stretched and the outer cable was perished and in really poor condition. Understandable I suppose on a 22 year old car. Mechanic said he might have got a bit of adjustment but decided to fit the new cable anyway. I am glad he did. :D

Just got to sort the warning light switch now. Are they still available?

Tony

Title: Re: Handbrake Cable / Caliper
Post by Simmo on Mar 2^nd, 2019, 6:41pm

Thank you Tony. All such info is helpful.