Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> News >> Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
        
(Message started by: desperate on Dec 20^th, 2004, 8:27pm)

Title: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by desperate on Dec 20^th, 2004, 8:27pm

This is my observation (and ignorant criticism) of a tiny bit of advice giving in the excellent buyers guide regards autoboxes and why i think it should be amended. I'm no expert by any means in motorvehicles but following that advice as gosbel has cost me dearly...

It says..

Quote:

17. Check the handbrake is fully on in four clicks. Leave it on and on Autos, engage D and time the transmission to get into D. Then select R and time it again for the drive to take up. No more than 3 seconds for reverse - more than that and the autobox may be on the way out.

The 3 seconds is well out according the the 3 gearbox places i've been to today (Oakdeen, Mr Clutch and Kens). they said it should be immediately like less than half a second ?????? In fact in time for the time is takes to actually say 'second'

Now what i missed was a worn forward clutch assy or something (nasty apparently but means nothing to me)

As i timed the gear selections at the time of buying it was 2/3 seconds into drive, both hot and cold. Reverse was less than a second and 1 and 2 wern't bad either. N and P were immediate as it should be.

Going to and fro between R and D speeded things up but obviously just masking the issue.

What do you tech guys think to that ?????????

Please note i'm not slagging the site in one bit.. just use my experience to offer some feedback on an important part of the guide.

;D

dan

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by waders on Dec 20^th, 2004, 8:52pm

Hi Dan,
As a GENERAL rule, the speed it takes up drive and particularly reverse IS a good indicator of generel wear.
Unfortunately again for you (MAF) it cannot show all problems.

What have they said is wrong with your box and what was or wasn't it doing?

Waders.

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by desperate on Dec 20^th, 2004, 8:58pm

They said forward clutch.

problem is very slow going into drive - upto 6 seconds Reverse is about a full second so not too bad.

MAF is replaced and clean, oil is correct level etc.

I'm actually booked in in the morning at 8.30 at Mr Clutch amnd they wanna do a full diagnostic with their snap-on mega expensive obd equiptment stuff plus an actual inspection via the sump cover ??? they want 35+vat for that so it'll give me an idea on what needs doing.

Bloody thing

Also i've got this high pitched whine from the rear and a clonking at the front. So even though it has 10months left i took it for an MoT... It failed on the left windscreen wiper.. THAT'S IT !!! Told him the symptoms and he said all bushs, bearings were Ok as far as an MoT test goes !!! Strange stuff.

Good fun though..

:D

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by desperate on Dec 20^th, 2004, 9:00pm

Oh yeah.. i agree it;s a good indication of genneral wear but i think 3 seconds should change to 1 second or more IMO to save anyone potentially passing a lemon off as OK.

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by waders on Dec 20^th, 2004, 9:01pm

So the box is fine while your driving?

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by desperate on Dec 20^th, 2004, 9:04pm

Yes on the move it's Ok other than slow reaction to kick down and sometimes not kicking down at all. Though the throttle action is quite stiff and sometimes you wonder if it's starting to sieze up and actually connected to anything if you know what i mean. ATM it's not a nice drive.

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by Dave on Dec 20^th, 2004, 9:13pm

Hi there.. I had kickdown problems recently too. It just didn't happen at all. Turned out there was an air leak, well a vacuum leak to be more precise.. the pipe that connects to the coke-can-like apparatus located underneath the water reservoir had detached, and apparently this is a semi-common problem. We also gave the MAF a good clean as it was CAKED.. and replaced the air filter.

So I had no kickdown due to either dirty MAF, OR detached vacuum pipes.

Hope this helps... you never know!

Mine's been a bit dodgy for a while so I sympathise when you say it's not a nice drive. It's so dissheartening to have spent so much money and have such a high class car perform so poorly. But, we've got my problems sorted so you will too! Good luck.

D

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by waders on Dec 20^th, 2004, 9:15pm

Before you let anyone take the box out have the filter and oil done.

on 12/20/04 at 20:27:29, desperate wrote:

Now what i missed was a worn forward clutch assy or something (nasty apparently but means nothing to me)

Do they mean the TC clutch. I'll check the exploded diagram of the box in a mo, but I dont remember anything called a "forward clutch assy"?

Back in 10 mins!!

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by waders on Dec 20^th, 2004, 9:31pm

There is a forward clutch alright!!

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/autotrans/A4LDEoverhaul.pdf

This shows you where it is.
Not sure what the symptoms of this going would be though? Maybe someone else does?

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by desperate on Dec 20^th, 2004, 10:50pm

Either way wades the machanic said today... 'Yer gearbox is broken mate' and i agreed with him.

Not to worry. Will soon be sorted as one guy i went to (oakdean) lives bear me (in a 5 bed, 3 bath mansion) and wants me to install a new heating system to his house or at least price for it, so i'll recover the cost from that.

Get gearbox sorted, replace chain/tensioners, and get obd2 and sorts codes out 1 by 1 and this car will be immac.

positive.. that's the way to be ;)

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by desperate on Dec 20^th, 2004, 10:57pm

Thanks Dave nice comments bud.

I've done the MAF and it's made no noticable differance - this one must've been OK.

I'm by no means disheartened yet. This car will be a pearler by the time we've done :)

But i'm definately gonna borrow some vacuum pullers and test for leaks this week. There is a hissing comming from the engine.

Cost wise i've just shelled out £290 for a comprehensive warranty so hopefully all my woes will come under this policy soon.

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by Eric_R on Dec 20^th, 2004, 11:25pm

Desperate,
Sorry you had a problem with the autobox. However, Buyer's Guide or not, I'm sure you must have realised that an autobox that takes 6 seconds to take up drive must have a problem ::) ::) ::) ::)

The words are slightly misleading - the 3 seconds refer to the selection of R rather than D, so I have amended it.

I'll stay with the advice in general. I consulted widely, and checked some 30,000 emails I've collected, as well as consulting an autobox specialist I've used in the past - and I maintain that a worn autobox can take up to 3 seconds to select reverse as long as there's only a slight delay into D. The delay is caused by a worn ATF pump taking longer to come up to pressure, allied to wear and leakage of the main line pressure and change valves. In fact two of my past autoboxes took several seconds to select R and still went through several years and about 60K miles and were still going when I sold them - so I draw from personal experience as well.

BTW, the advice goes as long as there are no other problems - if the gear selection is ok, the TCC lockup is good and kickdown and OD selection is ok, then a pause to select R is acceptable - clearly, your box is not in that category :'(

Reselection of gears from R to D doesn't work either because the main line pressure has been built up so of course gear selection will then be quicker.

Glad you liked the rest of the Guide. It took weeks to write ;)

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by desperate on Dec 21^st, 2004, 2:44pm

on 12/20/04 at 23:25:24, Eric_R wrote:

Thanks Eric

6 seconds is now though. on buying the car is was 3 secs into D.

Yeah the rest of the extensive guide is excellent.. great sourse of advice. I wasn't - or trying not to - criticising the guide, just offering the need for clarfication of that sentance.

Something else i'l add as well, though entirely down to my personal weakness, is to give the guide to a friend to go along who can be critical about the car while you are going around it wowing and ohhing at it wanting it regardless.

Saqlesman see guys like me comming so it's essential imo to have someone there to put a spanner in the works/

Also i spoke with Adian of Belgrave and he is sending me £200 towards cost of repairs out of good faith.

Cheers

Dan

;D

Title: Re: Amendment to the Site Buyers Guide ???
Post by waders on Dec 21^st, 2004, 2:50pm

Glad to see you can't keep a good man down!!

Dan, you're so right, it will be a "pearler" once you're done ;)

And I think you'll find it well worth while 8) IMO.

All the best mate,

8) ;D 8) ;D 8)

Waders